Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo on October 27, 2011 at 1:25am

I am so glad you use the metaphor of crutches.  Of course, when one sprains an ankle, a crutch is not only necessary but more comfortable.  When an ankle heals, the crutches go in the closet or to GoodWill.  My closest friend is a quadriplegic confined to a wheel chair because of M.S.  She can no longer feed herself, or even turn a page of a book.  She is realistically and truly dependent for everything.  Her family and we friends care for her, slow down our conversations so she can get a word into our chatter; she has strong opinions and voices them confidently, even though her voice is barely a whisper.  

Crutches and wheelchairs are tools and worthy of respect, not contempt.  Religion, especially if taught from infancy to only look outward for guidance or help very often fails when faced with grown-up, real world situations.  Yes, some people find strength in belief in some higher power; for many it is not necessary and not sufficient.

The first time I said out loud that I am an atheist, the sun did not stop in the sky, bolts of lightning did not strike me dead, a flood did not inundate my world. Family and friends are horrified, convinced I am doomed, that I have no basis for a moral foundation, and am called lots of things ... selfish, misguided, predict I will even become an ethical and moral misfit!

Those who were the cruelest and most judgmental often are the ones who come to me in private and ask questions.  There is something about thinking critically about a problem, looking at pros and cons, anticipating expected and unexpected consequences, making a decision based on my best information, and changing course if my thoughts and actions do not solve it.  There is nothing wrong with making a mistake;  there is something wrong if one expects answers to come from "out there", whatever that is.  Sadly, some don't realize that.  I certainly am not going to remain silent. 

Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo on October 27, 2011 at 1:37am

I don't feel compelled to turn to religion for comfort or guidance, it has failed me too many times. Having a sense of agency, of being able to stand firmly on the ground, shoulders squared, head held high, aware of real problems and fake fears, I no longer feel helpless. I know I have the obligation to seek ideas and options and have no obligation to choose another's point of view.  Not having to be right helps maintain a sense of self-respect; not having to please others provides freedom.

Permalink Reply by Tom Sarbeck on October 28, 2011 at 2:13am

"...I no longer feel helpless."

Well said, Joan. Recently a man I work with in a volunteer activity, who like me went to Catholic schools, surprised me with "Once a Catholic, always a Catholic."

Because I see too hasty a protest as cover for denial, I replied merely "Nonsense."

He repeated his line and I wanted a more effective reply. I watched his way of working and found a reply I liked better: "Once a Catholic, always helpless."

He stopped.

 

Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo on October 28, 2011 at 11:18am

Wonderful story!  Thanks.

Permalink Reply by Maruli Marulaki on October 20, 2011 at 4:23pm

What about this question:  Can Grimm's fairy tales and the telephone directory co-exist?

Permalink Reply by Tom Sarbeck on October 20, 2011 at 4:31pm

I don't know, Maruli; tell us about it.

 

Permalink Reply by Maruli Marulaki on October 20, 2011 at 4:44pm

oSorry, that my analogy was not clear.   To me, there is no real question of co-existing, when things are completely distinct, because they have nothing in common.    Grimm's fairy tales are fiction for immature brains of children, the telephone directory contains factual information.   Genesis is a fairy tale for delusional brains of christians, (a book about) evlution contains factual information.

Permalink Reply by Tom Sarbeck on October 21, 2011 at 2:16am

Maruli,

I almost replied that Grimm and the phone book can co-exist as doorstops.

I also sometimes use heavy books to hold glued surfaces together until the glue sets. Does that use qualify as co-existence?

 

 

Permalink Reply by Maruli Marulaki on October 21, 2011 at 2:24am

Thanks for giving me a new idea, what the bible could be used for:  As a door stop.   Up to now, I considered the bible only suitable as toilet paper.

Permalink Reply by Joseph P on October 21, 2011 at 7:38am

... or as a source of horror stories, once Stephen King grows too tame for you.

Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo on October 20, 2011 at 4:59pm

Grimm's fairy tales exist as fairy tales with no claim to authority, only fanciful mythology passed down through the generations.  A telephone book contains only information, no dogma, litany, commandments, or claims to supernatural authorship.

Permalink Reply by Maruli Marulaki on October 20, 2011 at 5:08pm

From the baseline of atheistic thinking, Grimm's fairy tales and bible's fairy tales are exactly the same, fiction for insufficiently functioning brains.   Why would I be bothered about alleged differences, that only exist in the brains, that are afflicted with belief?   And I compared the facts in the telephone book of my analogy with the facts of evolution!

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