Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Greg LeGore on November 12, 2011 at 4:09pm

Dear Madhukar,

Very well said.  Many writers more eloquent than I have noted that connection between desire to be free, willingness to work for it and not accept the alternative, and the realization of freedom.  I was more speaking from my own western perspective and thinking that most of the readers on this site likely shared the perspective.  

As you note, too, the terrible fraud and damage which have nothing to do with religion pose a staggering problem.

Permalink Reply by Madhukar Kulkarni on November 2, 2011 at 1:52am

Dear Joan, Every point in your above reply is absolutely correct. You are refering to christian theology but philosophies of all religions have many such things a rationalist can not agree with. I therefore believe that we now have to go beyond focussing on small points in religion and promote rationalism, secularism and most importantly, atheism. Let us believe ourselves and tell others that humanism and atheism will replace religion eventually, and not in too distant future.

MADHUKAR KULKARNI.

Permalink Reply by Madhukar Kulkarni on November 2, 2011 at 1:22am

Dear George, There is nothing like theistic evolution. This is simply an imaginary concept to reoncile scientific evolution and religious view of creation. There  is absolutely no evidence to believe in theistic evolution. When we compare evolution with creation, we do not mean Darwinian evolution. We mean evolution of the universe right from the Big Bang, what you call cosmology. George, I appeal to you to rethink abouy your belief in theistic evolution. We should not accept any thing that is unproven and stated merely as a compromise. Pardon me if I sound as if I am preaching.

MADHUKAR KULKARNI.

Permalink Reply by George on November 2, 2011 at 10:52pm

"I appeal to you to rethink abouy your belief in theistic evolution."

I'm an atheist. I don't "believe in" theistic evolution. I was pointing out that other people believe it.

"When we compare evolution with creation, we do not mean Darwinian evolution. We mean evolution of the universe right from the Big Bang, what you call cosmology."

The term "evolution" can be used both ways.  However I think for clarity's sake it is important to distinguish the concept of biological evolution as distinct from other uses of the term. 

Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo on November 12, 2011 at 1:37pm

Born into a Christian family and community, I learned how to be a women from my role models; I learned how to submit, obey, turn the other cheek, love my father and husband to the lord, crucify myself daily and rejoice in my crucifixion.  Women of my family were miserable in their marriages and I don't think the men were happy either.  Control over women and children was the basic value for men; submission and service was the basic value for women ... hard to do when some women have the ability to think and reason and some men act out of tradition and need to control and fear of not being "masculine".  

 I left my marriage and family without a clue of how I should think or act; confusion engulfed me; I just knew I had to do something differently. 

 The first thing I had to do was solve problems without the training to do so, and without the resources with which to do much of anything effective.  Multiple minimum wage jobs, three children aged ten years old, a family disgusted with my decision to leave, in-laws who told me I was a "bad woman", and no plan of action confronted me. 

 Long story short, I returned to college on a part time basis as a sophomore, ended my training at the doctoral level; I met men and women who did not believe in any god, who trusted their own internal wisdom, used procedures and processes to figure out solutions and were absolutely determined/absolutely flexible in their thinking.  

 Life changed radically for me and my children.  We learned how to communicate, solve problems, resolve conflicts without violence, set goals, explore options, make decisions, evaluate outcomes and discard old rules and regulations that impeded our health and welfare; we basically learned the scientific method with an awareness of feelings.  

 I agree with the Four Horsemen: Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens as well as Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Eugenie Scott, Lawrence Krauss, PZ Myers, and many, many others that no god/s or supernatural entities exist, that man created these in an attempt to understand life processes and as a tool of control. 

 The community of non-believers grows daily as exhibited by the daily increase in membership to different atheist organizations on the internet.  The next U.S.A. Census will reveal any changes.  

 The change in membership can be explained by the numbers of people who find religious teachings unsatisfactory or ludicrous and can successfully replace the principles with study, training, exploration, experimentation and being in communities of non-believers.  

 As to morals and ethics without religion, I find far more compelling moral and ethical guides in atheism than in dogma that changes at the whim of leadership and followed by sheep following a shepherd.  

Permalink Reply by kir komrik on November 23, 2011 at 8:14pm

IMO: no

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