Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Greg LeGore on October 25, 2011 at 11:56am

Madhukar, very well said.  One reason I joined this forum was to accelerate the demise of blind faith, which I until recently thought would last indefinitely.  Now there seems to be a willingness on the part of people to no longer tolerate the lies and harm which accompany any belief system and in fact are demanded for its sustenance.  Thank you.

Permalink Reply by Dr. Terence Meaden on October 25, 2011 at 2:47pm

Agreed.

You are right-----but I am less hopeful about the problem ever being wholly solved. The progress that we want, and which the human race deserves, will be slow to achieve because of the gullibility of so many.

Most believers genuinely accept the myths they were taught. Too many force their baseless beliefs on susceptible children when the latter are young---either directly at home or through school or at their god-worshipping place. This cycle needs to be broken. I spent much of my life thinking that schools will play a major role in this. Alas, although some do, many do not.

At present, American candidates for the presidency play the religious-belief card-game at election time.

The USA now has a Mormon who would like to be president: Mitt Romney.

Mormons believe the fictions that an angel called Moroni appeared to Joseph Smith and showed him a christian testament on gold plates that very soon vanished, that god lives near a planet called Kolob, and that humans can become gods of their own universes! The number of gullible suckers is far higher than our planet merits.

 

 

Permalink Reply by Jim DePaulo on October 25, 2011 at 3:10pm

The number of gullible suckers is far higher than our planet merits.

 

 The wealth of the mega church founders and their minions is testament to the gullibility of their followers. 

 

Permalink Reply by Pat on October 25, 2011 at 3:28pm

Don't forget.  According to Ole Joe Smith, the Garden of Eden, along Adam and Eve, were originally in Jackson County, Missouri.

P.T. Barnum was right.

Permalink Reply by Greg LeGore on October 25, 2011 at 3:52pm

Dr. Meaden, agree that it may never be wholly solved but maybe it can be similar to slavery.  Regarding the importance of early indoctrination, I think it was BF Skinner who stated if he had someone (to indoctrinate) until 5, you could have them for the rest of their lives.  So we have to as you mention, break that cycle...a worthy cause.

Permalink Reply by Madhukar Kulkarni on October 26, 2011 at 1:34am

Dr. Meaden, I do not share your pessimism. A period of 100 or 200 years is not long in the life of humanity. Science has demolished many myths in a relatively short time and within next 100 to 200 years, growth of science will completely destroy all religions and all faiths assiciated with it. EVEN AMERICA WILL NOT BE AN EXCEPTION. All we have to do is to help accelerate the pace of this process. 

MADHUKAR KULKARNI

Permalink Reply by Dr. Terence Meaden on October 26, 2011 at 9:12am

My pessimism---in the manner I expressed it---derives from the tenacity with which some religions enchain their brainwashed followers---above all, the muslims.

In the theocratic ruled countries, death for apostasy scares the wits out of any practical defiance. 

Permalink Reply by Madhukar Kulkarni on November 2, 2011 at 1:37am

Dear Dr. Meaden, I completely agree with your anxiety about brainwashed followers, and, as you say, particularly the Muslims. The Muslim fundamentalist activities will be going on for some more time but will eventually cause a backlash not only among non-muslims but among the muslims as well. As I have said before, it is just a matter of time. The good thing that will come out of the ensuing turmoil will be the demise of all religious faiths. The world one day is going to replace religion with atheist humanism. All atheists therefore should make every possible effort to accelerate this process.

MADHUKAR KULKARNI. 

Permalink Reply by Tom Sarbeck on October 26, 2011 at 2:59am

Madhukar,

Some of your words ("...should not be allowed to coexist...." and "...why allow them....") have a perhaps-unintended authoritarian flavor. Ditto for some of the words of several others who posted here.

I grew up in an authoritarian (ethnic German) home and was sent to authoritarian (Catholic) schools. Both relied on fear to achieve the results they wanted. More authoritarianism will not assuage the fear people feel and will not produce the results we all need.

 

Permalink Reply by Greg LeGore on October 26, 2011 at 8:54am

Tom, I think he meant that we shouldn't treat them as factual, true equals.  In many fields, what was new info is now accepted practice, the omission of which may constitute malpractice.  And does anyone in any civilized country raise their children to believe that slavery is legal, moral, ethical or at least condoned - christianity explicitly, in its writings, sanctions slavery.  How could any god have gotten that wrong...not possible.  So we humans have, as aptly stated by Sam Harris, surpassed the mythical christian god.  I think Madhukar was making the point that such changes take several generations to be realized.

Permalink Reply by Dr. Terence Meaden on October 26, 2011 at 9:01am

Tom, I did not interpret Madhukar Kulkarni's words as authoritarian. Rather, it was a matter of fine rhetoric, i.e. his oratory.

Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo on October 26, 2011 at 11:20am

Yes, I know the feelings of fear of an infant and the coping strategies I learned to survive.  My earliest memory is of looking through the bars of my crib as my father beat my mother to bloody unconsciousness.  I hid under the pillow screaming silently, "Stop!" Nothing stopped and I learned how to hide, follow directions, do what I was told, depend on others to tell me right from wrong and to appease others;  modern science calls this "learned helplessness".

You can imagine how debilitating that strategy is for a mature human being faced with real world problems.  The logical consequences of those early experiences resulted in hatred for my father and even hatred for my mother because she lived to her 60s and died as a result of a beating from my father.  It took her two months to die in the hospital, but she died rather than return to her hell.  

I married a man who abused me and our children and I/we "survived" for 10 years until I said, "God damn god, Jesus, the church and its complicity community. One minister, Richard C. Halverson, of 4th Presbyterian Church, Bathesda, MD, and chaplain for the USA Senate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_C._Halverson) told me, "when you are being beaten, realize you are living your life in imitation of the crucified Christ.  Of all women, you are most blessed; rejoice in your crucifixion." 

Writing my doctoral dissertation, "A splendid Heresy," I named this the "Passive Gospel": yield, pray, obey, turn the other cheek, love him to the lord, crucify myself daily and rejoice in my crucifixion."   I worked for years in battered women's and children's' programs and heard variations on this theme over and over and over.  

Abuse, mental, physical, and emotional, should not be allowed.  

 

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• Next ›
• Page