Nexus Book Club

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Nexus Book Club

A group for those of us who like reading and books. Fiction, non-fiction, drama, poetry... everything goes.

Members: 825
Latest Activity: Jan 23

Welcome to the Nexus Book Club!

Hello to all our new (and old) members! We'd love to hear from you; please take the time to introduce yourself either on the forum or the wall.

Feel free to discuss the books you're reading at the moment, your favorite authors or works, and so on. I'm sure everyone has a book they think others here might find interesting!

Also, don't forget to check out the page Books by A|N Members Who are Published Authors, located just under the members section on your right.


Books of Interest to Atheists and Skeptics
Breaking The Spell by Daniel Dennett
A Devil's Chaplain, by Richard Dawkins
The End of Faith, by Sam Harris
The God Delusion, by Richard Dawkins
God is Not Great, by Christopher Hitchens
Godless, by Dan Barker
Letter to a Christian Nation, by Sam Harris
Why I am not a Christian, by Bertrand Russell

Sites for Bibliotaphs
Audible.com
BookCrossing.com
BookMooch.com
The Internet Archive
LibraryThing.com
LibriVox.org
Project Gutenburg
Shelfari.com

Discussion Forum

Why do they all have "happy endings"

Started by Cory D Wells. Last reply by sk8eycat Jan 22. 5 Replies

New books on the secular life

Started by Nick Bottom. Last reply by Randall Smith Oct 23, 2014. 1 Reply

POLLY AND THE ONE AND ONLY WORLD

Started by Don. Last reply by Don Sep 13, 2014. 1 Reply

Haruki Murakami

Started by Nick Bottom. Last reply by Michael Mann Sep 7, 2014. 1 Reply

"Cli-fi"

Started by Don. Last reply by Don Aug 31, 2014. 4 Replies

top 10

Started by Jeffrey. Last reply by Nick Bottom Aug 23, 2014. 17 Replies

Top 5 Books on Atheism

Started by Steph S.. Last reply by Kosak Grabovsky Dec 15, 2013. 1 Reply

The Drunkard's Walk: How Randomness Rules Our Lives, by Leonard Mlodinow

Started by A Former Member. Last reply by Keith Brian Johnson Jun 16, 2013. 5 Replies

Atheism books (beyond Hitchens, Dawkins, & Harris)

Started by Dr. Thoss. Last reply by Kelli Evans Nov 24, 2012. 52 Replies

Robert Jordan "Wheel of Time" fans?

Started by Jenn Wiffen. Last reply by Joseph P Sep 10, 2012. 1 Reply

Currently Reading: American Gods by Neil Gaiman

Started by The Big Blue Frog. Last reply by Cory D Wells Jul 24, 2012. 8 Replies

Raven’s Gate, by Anthony Horowitz

Started by A Former Member May 18, 2012. 0 Replies

Comment Wall

Comment

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Comment by Tony Davis on December 28, 2010 at 8:16pm

Thanks again Joseph.  One thing I just discovered about the program that we use to post Examiner articles is that you have to proof the articles again after you publish them (should be a no-brainer right?).  Trust me, most of the errors I made fair and square, but the spacing issues you pointed out were not there in the original word document I cut-and-pasted from, I just checked.

 

Maybe from now on I will publish them late at night, print them and then do a solid proof reading before anyone has a chance to read them.  I'll still make mistakes as I am one who needs a good editor anyway, but that might minimize them somewhat.

Comment by Joseph P on December 28, 2010 at 8:10pm

Ohhhhhh, yeah, brevity can be a guideline, then.  You already demonstrated the point of the disproof.  That was just a dialogue of it.

 

Heh, yeah, I don't know that I'd add the Aquinas comment, myself.  It fits in more with what I write, in comedy, not a more dry discussion.  I can definitely see the argument for leaving it out.  It's an entertainment quip, not an actual argument.

 

Sure, you can add that in, at the end.  I'll feel the need to go through the article with a finer attention to detail, if I accept that.  I have a more lengthy e-mail I have to write, before i get to that.  I'm just cleaning out my mailbox right now.  I'll post any further corrections after I do that.

Comment by Tony Davis on December 28, 2010 at 7:49pm

By the way Joseph, I almost included the example "Ontological proof for the non-existence of God" that you mentioned but one of the things that suck about the place I am posting my articles is that I already blow the article size limitation guidelines right out of the water.

 

I made all your recommended changes except the addition of the Aquinas comment in the last paragraph.  I agree with your point but (and not sure why really) just didn't "feel it" at this time.  I might add it later though.

 

Do you mind if I give you "props" in the comment section for catching  my errors and giving helpful thoughts?

 

VR,

Tony

Comment by Joseph P on December 28, 2010 at 7:45pm

No worries.  There could be more.  I only really started paying attention to them in paragraph 6, when they started getting flagrant.

 

It's a valid target to go after.  As easy a target as it is, I've heard people bring it up, too.  As long as it's brought up, it needs to be knocked down.

Comment by Tony Davis on December 28, 2010 at 7:38pm

Thanks a lot for all the thoughts (and especially for catching my idiotic spelling errors!!). 

 

I have to admit, I thought long and hard about the value of actually including a refutation of this moronic "proof of God", but I have actually been confronted with it several times recently so I thought it would be nice to have an article posted so that when someone poses it to me again I can just refer them to the article rather than taking the time to debate the issue. 

 

I will go correct the spelling errors now.  Can't believe I did that.  My wife points out my lack of attention to detail.  ;-p

Comment by Joseph P on December 28, 2010 at 7:20pm

Addendum:

Paragraph 6:  According to Anselm “The fool said in his hear, ‘there is no God’.

Insert the t in 'heart'.

But certainly that same fool, having heard what I just said, ‘something greater than cannot be though,’ understands what he heard, and what he understands is in his thought…

Insert the t in the first 'thought'.

Paragraph 9:  Most of us here in the 21st century are convinced that genocide, rape, torture, misogyny, slavery, racismand human sacrificeare all quite bad things.

Your spacing is off, after 'racism' and 'sacrifice'.  You also left out the Oxford comma after 'racism'.

Just consider your likely reaction if you were to meet a person who felt that these things were ok, or were perhaps even virtuous for some reason.

There's no comma before the 'or', since it's not an independent clause following it.

Paragraph 10:  ... but actually commanding, such acts.

No comma after 'commanding'.

So the third challenge to the ontological argument is that when conceiving of the greatest, most perfect, thing there are reasons to challenge the assumption that the thing imagined would be the God of the
Bible.

Move the comma from after 'perfect' to after 'thing'. 

Last paragraph:  A total abandonment of human reason is necessitated to accept that merely by imagining God not only makes him real, it actually requires that he be real.

That's a comma splice.  Either add a conjunction after the comma, split it into two sentences, or replace the comma with a semicolon.

 

Also, I'd add, in your last section, that an argument is worse than wrong if other apologists rip it apart, as Thomas Aquinas did.  :-D

Comment by Joseph P on December 28, 2010 at 6:53pm

@Tony

Heh, that one is even worth mentioning?  Besides being obviously ridiculous in that you can't define something into existence, there's the ludicrous flaw in that existence isn't a property of something.  My personal favorite is from Douglas Gasking:

 

1. The creation of the world is the most marvelous achievement imaginable.
2. The merit of an achievement is the product of (a) its intrinsic quality, and (b) the ability of its creator.
3. The greater the disability (or handicap) of the creator, the more impressive the achievement.
4. The most formidable handicap for a creator would be non-existence.
5. Therefore if we suppose that the universe is the product of an existent creator we can conceive a greater being — namely, one who created everything while not existing.
6. Therefore, God does not exist

 

(pasted from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontological_argument)

Comment by Ian Mason on December 28, 2010 at 1:46pm

According to many, from Virginia Woolf to modern neurologists, the human brain is capable of perceiving a maximum of 6 things at any one time. The more usual average i 5, the numbers 1 to 5 or letters A to E for example. That means that the largest thing I can understand is 6 if I'm unusually talented. Does this mean that things that come in 7's are divine? Just because I can't think of them all at one time?

 

Try the experiment: how many letters can you think of/picture in one image and at one time? At which point do you start reading left to right to get them all in?

Comment by Tony Davis on December 28, 2010 at 7:45am

For any who care to read it (and hopefully critique it as well) I just posted an article which addresses St. Anselm's Ontological Argument at http://www.examiner.com/skepticism-in-washington-dc/skeptical-of-ch...

VR,

Tony

Comment by A Former Member on December 21, 2010 at 4:40pm

Indeed. Thanks.

 
 
 

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