Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Dallas the Phallus on December 5, 2008 at 11:01am

Both are very good. I have both memorized (cuz I'm such a dork, I do things like that). Annabell Lee is another great one. Have you ever watched any of the DVD documentaries on his life? Your local library should have some of them, or you can get them on interlibrary loan.

It's too bad that it is so hard to find any decent film adaptations of his work.

What are you favorite short stories by him? Mine are (big surprise) "The Cask of Amontillado", "The Black Cat", "The Facts in the Case of M Valdemar", "Morella", "Ligeia", and "The Pit and the Pendulum". I don't care much for the humor or satire works.

Permalink Reply by Jeffrey on December 6, 2008 at 9:14am

Sorry if this reply is a little late I didn't realize you had replied to it.

I doubt it will strike you with surprise to find out that I own a book of Poe's complete poems and stories. It might surprise you that I haven't read every last thing in it. I'll admit Poe had some style but I'm not a huge fan of his work. I lean more towards H.P. Lovecraft(that is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die). I tried reading The Case of Arthur Gordon Pyme but just got bored with it. Sorry if you're a diehard Poe fan but the pacing was awful and the story just didn't move fast enough so I abandoned it. However on a more positive note I haven't read much of his poetry(I do read The Raven every halloween religiously) just simply because I'm not too big on poetry. Wow that wasn't really all that positive but what I was leading too is yes I have read a few of his short stories and I loved The Black Cat, Shortness of Breath(a tale neither in nor out of Blackwood, I think that's what it's called forgive me if I don't want to break out my Poe book to check it.) The Tale Tell Heart(a classic)but I didn't completely understand The Masque of Red Death, The Cask of Amontillado(it's a great concept and the perfect murder but I just didn't understand why he hated the man so much) and The Fall of the House of Usher. The thing I find fascinating about Poe was he was way way ahead of his time with the living dead genre.

Permalink Reply by Dallas the Phallus on December 6, 2008 at 6:15pm

Okay now buddy: stand back. When people start talking about Poe, I get all riled up. So grab a cuppa joe, pull up a chair, and give me some elbow room.

No, I'm not surprised you have a copy. I own several editions, but like you, I have not read everything either. I have tried the satire and humor, but that is not the kind of thing I go for usually, anyhow. I prefer the tales of the arabesque and the grotesque, as they call them.

I like Poe for two major reasons: 1.) His use of language. It is very formal and pedantic, but still very feeling, very emotional, and very HUMAN. (I like Victorian writers, especially ghost stories, for the same reason.) 2.) His tales of terror have to do with psychological terror, fear, or obsession; monomania, paranoia, neurasthenia, etc. There are never any ghosts, witches, vampires, hobgoblins, and such in his stories, and yet the protagonists are often found in the throws of mortal terror.

In stories such as "The Pit and the Pendulum", the threat is very real. Yet, in some cases, such as "The Black Cat", we don't know if the threat is real or imagined. There is also a morbid and sexual fascination with death, as in "The Oblong Box" and "Berenice". But most importantly, the feelings of terror that are evoked by these stories in the reader, and the protagonists, are the all-too-human fear and understanding that there are forces at work in the universe over which we have not control. As in all these mentioned, and in stories such as "The Premature Burial" and "The Fall of the House of Usher", the life of the protagonist is always under immediate (or perceived) threat from malignant forces over which he has no control, and to him (as to all of us) this is unbearable.

To me, this is what makes Poe so important and successful. No one has been able to pull this off as he was. Of course, his life was very much like the protagonists in his stories, and I think Poe was essentially writing about himself. He lost everyone who was important to him to premature death. By the time he died, he was basically alone in the world. Poe was forever shaking his fist at the universe, which we can easily understand.

I think if you reexamine Poe's underlying message, you may appreciate him more.

Yes, the Narrative of AGP is kind of slow, but it gets to be a wild story with one horrible tragedy happening after another. Again, as in most of Poe's stories, the character is lost at sea -- upon a violent and uncaring sea -- and is completely at the mercy of the universe. It's an adventure story, but also a metaphor.

I've read a bit of Lovecraft, but he is not my favorite. I'm not completely wild about his writing style, though his ideas are immense. I think though that he often does not take them far enough. My favorite story he did is "The Hound", which I have read several times. I have also watched about 5 or so adaptations of his work into film this past year, with the most notable and best-done being Dagon.

Have you seen The Call of Cthulhu: The Celebrated Story by H.P. Lovecraft?

Back to Poe, I like "The Raven" as well, and have it memorized (because I'm a dork and I do that type of thing). It catapulted him to fame more than anything else he ever did. Here again, the main character is helpless to stop the death of his beloved in the face of an uncaring universe. Birds have often been used to represent the human soul (typically a sparrow), and here the raven represents the black burden of his own soul, and the tragedy and sadness that resides with in it. The poem is a metaphor. I do not think that we are to believe that there is an actual, real raven present in the room with him.

I don't know this "Shortness of Breath" of which you speak. I think you may have it confused with someone else, perhaps?

The "Masque of the Red Death" is an allegorical story on the plague, and the equalizing force of death: "And now was acknowledged the presence of the Red Death. He had come like a thief in the night. And one by one dropped the revellers in the blood-bedewed halls of their revel, and died each in the despairing posture of his fall. And the life of the ebony clock went out with that of the last of the gay. And the flames of the tripods expired. And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all."

Also, I'm not sure Poe was ahead of his time with the "living dead genre". Not to be argumentative, but his dead were not living, which was part of the tragedy to him. The stories were morbid, yes, and perhaps in that respect ahead of their time, but people in his day and age were much more familiar with death than we are. The mortality rates were much higher then, and people often kept the deceased in their home for a week or so, so that distant relatives could make the journey to pay their respects and attend the funeral. There was also some concern over premature burial, too. See the book Buried Alive for more on this topic.

Hope I wasn't too long-winded.

Permalink Reply by Jeffrey on December 6, 2008 at 6:56pm

"When people start talking about Poe, I get all riled up"

Boy you weren't kiddin.

I have seen some of Lovecraft's adaptations and was disappointed by all of the but especially Re-Animator. The story wasn't the best but the movie was shit. I did see Dagon and wasn't too impressed especially since The Shadow Over Innsmouth is one of my favorite stories by Lovecraft. No matter how good it was it was never going to live up to my expectations. What's interesting about Lovecraft is he has contemporaries. People have been so inspired by his work they have carried on with it. While they're not all great I have read some pretty good ones... none by Stephen King mind you. I like King and all but he's not very good at writing Lovecraft.

I feel about as passionately about Lovecraft as you do Poe so I guess I can understand.

But I thought The Facts in Case of M Valdemar and Shortness of Breath(I just found out that the story is Loss of Breath: A Tale Neither In Nor Out of Blackwood. I didn't want to but I had to dig out my copy of the EAP Complete Poems and Tales. If you haven't read it I suggest you give it a try I'm sure you'll like it) were both stories about zombies?

Permalink Reply by Dallas the Phallus on December 6, 2008 at 7:21pm

I've not seen Re-Animator. Mouth of Madness was awful, too. Dagon was not the worst I've seen, but Lovecraft always leaves me a little wanting. Like I said, his ideas were immense, original, and very interesting, but I'm not sure what to do with them. Does that make sense?

I think as far as the movies go, when you consider what the stories are about, you can understand how incredibly hard it would be to put that on film. It is fairly easy to write words about it, I guess. But much harder to make a visual out of it.

Is "The Shadow of Innsmouth" the story that the movie Dagon was based? Have you read "The Hound" that I mentioned? There is also another one I like, but the title escapes me, about a man who ends up dying when he breaks into a mausoleum and falls through the casket and his foot goes into the corpse's mouth, and he dies of an infection. Do you know that one?

Yes, that is interesting about his contemporaries, and this "cult" that they formed around these ideas. It is amazing how much he inspired others, and how his work is still inspiring people today. He has a real following, moreso than Poe.

I don't like King at all. I think his writing is terrible.

So, "The Loss of Breath" is a Lovecraft story, or a Poe story? I'm confused.

Permalink Reply by Dallas the Phallus on January 13, 2009 at 8:59am

This is certainly a very honest poem, and has a masculine feel to it. I mean, if you just read the poem and didn't know the author, you could easily tell it was a man writing it. I can't say that I'm overwhelmed by his style, though. I think I gravitate to more lyrical and emotional work.

Bukowski has been on my list to explore, but I really know nothing about him other than being able to recognize his name. Was he part of the beat generation? American, right?

Permalink Reply by spooky effect on January 25, 2009 at 4:39pm

I'm not a big poetry fan. But I do like Poe. Also Samuel Coleridge Taylor has always held my facination.

The Rime of the Ancient Mariner
Christabel
Kubla Khan

To list a few.

Permalink Reply by Ralph Dumain on February 7, 2009 at 12:16pm

My favorite poet of all time is William Blake.

Permalink Reply by Dallas the Phallus on February 7, 2009 at 2:17pm

William Blake is deep and hard to understand. Very mystical. I like his artwork a lot, though.

Permalink Reply by Calla on February 10, 2009 at 7:08am

I think one of the things that make Blake difficult is that to really appreciate his poems one should read them in a wider (i.e. historical, biographical, literary) context. I'd say that this applies to at least Songs of Innocence and Songs of Experience, since I'm most familiar with those.
I agree with you on the illustrations and art.

Permalink Reply by Dallas the Phallus on February 10, 2009 at 9:37am

Yes, understanding the historical, political, or cultural context IS SO VERY important to understanding anything. Take for example Picasso. I don't care for his work, but when you examine the context of when and where he lived, and the relationship to the work that came before and after it, you gain an appreciation of his work that could otherwise be missed.

Permalink Reply by Mike Hein on February 9, 2009 at 8:49am

Keats has always been my favorite with To Autumn being the pinnacle of personal poetry for me.

Fog by Sandburg rates highly with me too. Plus, I only live 15 min. from the Carl Sandburg home. :)

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