Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Nate on August 12, 2009 at 9:22am

I think you're experiencing the effects of a lifetime of indoctrination. We were repeatedly exposed to the false dichotomy that all that exists in nature arrived thanks to either an intervening Creator or blind chance. As you've discovered in your reading about evolution, natural selection is the answer to our questions about the development of species.

Permalink Reply by Robert Tobin on August 12, 2009 at 9:29am

I successfully escaped from the tyrannical indoctrination of the "Holy" Roman Catholic Church and am now a fierce Atheist.

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Permalink Reply by mick keogh on September 10, 2009 at 11:39am

I lover your comment I am the same, I am very catholic about my atheism.

Permalink Reply by Nathan Phelps on August 12, 2009 at 10:52am

"Who ever died from thinking god created the universe than from thinking a godless big bang started it?"

It seems to me that Atheism/Secularism has been gaining in strength in recent years. Perhaps one of the reasons is that thinking god created the universe has led more and more to thinking we need to slaughter everyone who disagrees. That surely can't be an evolutionary advantage.

Mr. Black points out, religion's tendency to focus on the hereafter devalues the focus on living now and the evolutionary by product of effectively passing on our genes.

It's not that I don't accept the idea that we are in some way hardwired for religion, I just think it's important to note that religion isn't necessarily an evolutionarily sound aspect of humans.

One other thought. I recently began a conversation with someone who was asked to leave my father's church when he had the temerity to ask a few insightful, potentially explosive, questions about their doctrinal system. Much of his struggle with being separated from them centers around the loss of fellowship. He is an admitted agnostic now, thanks to my father's extreme dogma, but he longs for the sense of belonging that was lost. Mr. Black's comments about "tight knit groups" alludes to that very potent aspect of humanity.

I was talking with Dr. Andy Thomson last month and he was explaining to me about that ancient drive within humans to maintain connection with a group...that our very survival depended on it in the distant past. So powerful is that instinct, that we will deny things as plain as the nose on our face in order to maintain inclusion in a group. That leads me to conclude that something even more powerful or profound must act on a human to cause them to act contrary to that instinct.

Permalink Reply by Aaron S. (USA) on August 12, 2009 at 12:57pm

I think cognitive science might have some preliminary answers to this. Pascal Boyer, a cognitive scientist, wrote an article (PDF) on how religion is probably the byproduct of various cognitive traits.

I think it was this article that related religion to writing. Virtually every human society has some sort of writing system, but there isn't any part of our brain that serves as a "writing module." Rather, writing is a natural outcome of our ability to recognize and create patterns and languages, along with our fine motor ability.

The downside is that atheism is probably more cognitively "expensive" or energy-consuming that pseudo-scientific explanations :( But then, that probably goes for nearly everything.

Permalink Reply by Franklin Bacon on August 12, 2009 at 10:49pm

And it all happened within 6000 years, because that's as old as the earth is? Yah...

but when you consider the possibility that the earth is actually billions of years old, several millions of years seem rather easy to have achieved what has happened.

Permalink Reply by HourglassStargazer on August 24, 2009 at 12:43am

It is natural to try to tack this sort of an explanation on things that are so complex. It seems to satisfy, but it doesn't really satisfy, you know? Like junk food. I think it is particularly difficult to shake those thoughts when it has been taught to you previously that these things were created. It becomes a situation of not just learning something special about your planet, but having to validate your own thoughts over thoughts you have previously been told were correct.


Have you watched very much , or any of Richard Dawkins videos? He is really a wonderful teacher. I believe it was "The Watchmaker" in which he uses a computer selection algorithm to demonstrate how evolutionary changes take place in a way that is easier to grasp. Of course, it is on a faster timescale, but it really helps drive it home. I watch him often on You Tube.