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Jewish Atheists

For Atheists of Jewish origin and others interested in Jewish history and culture.

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Am I Still Jewish?

Started by Cecilia. Last reply by Mordekhai ben-Yosef 1 hour ago. 16 Replies

Letting go of Israel, or The Self-Loathing Jew

Started by Diana D. Last reply by Alan Perlman Apr 15, 2013. 21 Replies

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Comment by Jennifer Kaufman on February 28, 2010 at 9:26am
Fyi, I loved his Mother Theresa book too, the missionary position. Brought me out of my jewish-atheist shell, now I can't stand all religions. Hitchens was the "devils advocate" at the Vatican when her cause went up for sainthood. Now, it turns out, she was an atheist, but was encouraged to stay in religion for institutional reasons.
Comment by Jennifer Kaufman on February 28, 2010 at 9:15am
Sorry. I was thinking of the god is not great.
Comment by Eric on February 27, 2010 at 8:57pm
@Jennifer Kaufman - I refer you to Hitchens book, he explains it so well.

What's the name of the Hitchens book you're referring to? I assume you're talking about Christopher Hitchens, so do you mean God Is Not Great, The Portable Atheist, or another book? I looked up Christopher Hitchens on Amazon, and apparently he is a prodigious writer, there are 25 books by the same guy.
Comment by Eric on February 27, 2010 at 8:47pm
@Phil Poland -
Are there people on JA who still believe that the Exodus was historical?

- I think there must be some historical kernel of truth buried somewhere in the story. There must have been some sort of historical accident. It didn't get made up out of whole cloth. It had to have come from somewhere in the first place. I don't believe 200,000 Jews were in the original Exodus, no way. But the other problem is that the area the other side of the Exodus where everybody fled to, recent research shows that area was also under Egyptian influence. So I'm very confused what the whole Exodus was really about. Maybe some other narrative from some other neighboring culture was hijacked and re-appropriated.

I do know that at some point in ancient Israel history, some stories were apparently rewritten to help unify the Jews of northern Israel with those of southern Israel, and some liberties might have been taken in the melding of stories from the north and south as a way to make sure that everybody felt included in the new unified community. They were more interested in whether everybody felt included than in whether the melding of the stories made complete sense. I don't remember, I think the Babylonians or some other empire invaded the northern part of Israel and the people who escaped made their way to the southern part of the country and the Jews from the south did their best to welcome their fellow neighbors from the north. The Exodus narrative would have been before this time so maybe the story melders approached this story the way you'd approach silly putty, and that's why we have no idea how to really make sense of it today.
Comment by Ralph Dumain on February 27, 2010 at 4:25pm
Phil is correct on all counts. On the myth of the Judaeo-Christian tradition, see my blog:

"Judaeo-Christian tradition, American civil religion, Anti-Semitism, Jeremiah Wright"
http://reasonsociety.blogspot.com/2009/07/judaeo-christian-traditio...
Comment by Adam on February 27, 2010 at 1:34pm
@Phil So true. I take just as much pride in the agnostic intellectual Yiddish culture as any other par of Judaism, if not more. They focused on fiction, theatre and political theory and dissent. Often they were unconcerned with god, if not outright atheistic. They were also, without a doubt, a Jewish community. The culture I take pride in isn't about what's happened to us. It's what we've accomplished.
Comment by Ruthe on February 27, 2010 at 12:13pm
Not historical. So what? Still appreciate our Jewish history, factual and fictional alike.
http://www.culturaljudaism.org/ccj/jlc/C17/61/
Comment by Ralph Dumain on February 27, 2010 at 11:31am
Presumably not, but the question is about real history apart from Biblical narratives.
Comment by Adam on February 27, 2010 at 11:24am
@Ralph That would be telling. Heh.

But what I've read is that archeological evidence points to the work force that built the pyramids being well paid. Also, the earliest known documents that tell of Jews in Egypt put them there well after the pyramids were built. They came in with the Persians and were actually part of a force sent to aid the Egyptians.

I haven't tracked the source, but Brian Dunning reports that there are ancient writings that have some of these early Jews owning Egyptian slaves.
Comment by Jennifer Kaufman on February 27, 2010 at 11:12am
There was no mass exodus. No evidence for that. I refer you to Hitchens book, he explains it so well. But there are other sources.

The kicker is that later in history, the jews kept slaves, we keep forgetting to mention that to our kids.
 

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