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For Atheists of Jewish origin and others interested in Jewish history and culture.
Latest Activity: Sep 25
Started by jlaz. Last reply by jlaz Sep 25.
Started by Freethinker31. Last reply by Freethinker31 Sep 19.
Started by jlaz. Last reply by Grinning Cat Aug 30.
Thanks Grinning Cat, that review on Amazon by the Rabbi was I thought worth the read. Haven't checked out the book itself.http://www.amazon.com/review/R22PGGCUEVOYZJ/44 of 44 people found the following review helpful5.0 out of 5 stars "Like I said before -- Jewshness is BOTH culture and religion," January 7, 2005By Rabbi Yonassan Gershom
"I don't have a problem with religions when they make the lives of people better"
A few years ago the New York Times had an article, "More Atheists Shout It From the Rooftops", which, among other things, quoted and pictured a South Carolina church musician who's on the board of the area's humanist group. “I did struggle at one point as to whether or not I should be making music in churches, given my position on things. But at the same time I like using my music to move people, to give them comfort. And what I’ve found is, I am not one of the humanists who feels that religion is a bad thing.”
Natalie, I'm rereading your post and will heartily second "I don't have a problem with religions when they make the lives of people better". (With a note of caution that we don't want to encourage magical thinking and blind obedience! Nontheistic "religions" such as Ethical Culture and Humanistic Judaism definitely have something to offer.)
In "Humanist Jews" I posted a diagram I found, showing some of the relationships between groups that are secular, humanist, and/or Jewish, and various combinations of the above.
Natalie....After reading your post again, I realized what you were trying to covey to me...As an Atheist Jew, I can now pick and choose what parts of our culture I can live with and not care what anyone thinks....It means a lot to hear it from a fellow Jew and I want to thank you again....
Even if it turns out that there was no slavery in Egypt, and no Exodus, there is something to be learned from that story, and the fact that it has been passed on for SO long tells me that it has its own internal validity, even if it didn't happen just the way it was said to have happened. But then I don't have a problem with religions when they make the lives of people better; it's only when they destroy people and cause strife and discord and assert their claim that they are the only true religion, and therefore need to rule the whole world that my hackles get raised. Judaism hasn't done that for more than 2 millennia, but we have some cousins who still believe that they are commanded by god to do just that.
Thank you Grinning Cat and Natalie.....I am proud of my heritage,and was taken aback by those who tried to undermine it...I do realize the Old Testament got the dates wrong, but many of the stories are true,..I am still confused about the Exodus from Egypt since archeological digs have found no artifacts of the Israelites in the Sinai..I need to do more research.....
Of note: secular humanistic rabbi Judith Seid's book God-Optional Judaism (which I recommend, btw) got a thoughtful, positive five-star Amazon review, which I just discovered, from a (theistic) Hasidic rabbi! "Seid has given a lot of serious thought to her presentation and, whether or not you can accept her point(s) of view, it is clear that she is fully committed to her Jewish identity. I recommend this book to anyone -- Jewish or not -- who would like to understand why being Jewish is so much more that a 'faith' or 'religion.'"
And Natalie, thanks for pointing out the nature of the Hebrew scriptures, and how the name "Tanach" rejects the theistic assumptions inherent in "Old Testament". What you said afterwards bears repeating: "it's basically up to you to enjoy your Jewishness without letting anyone else... try to determine what you should or shouldn't do."
[No gods needed; and I agree with Seid that that too is valid Judaism.]
Freethinker, the Tanach ( a better word than Old Testament, which implies that there really is a god who made a covenant with the Jews, and then threw them overboard when he made his New Testament documenting his new covenant with the Christians) is a mixture of mythology, some of which predates the Jews, a genealogy, a set of laws (which don't make sense to us, but we don't live in that time period), sermons or preachings by the prophets, literature, poems, and proverbs, and gradually creeping in, some verifiable history, such as the location of the First and Second Temples, the Pools of Siloam, and as recorded in other peoples' histories, conquests and defeats. So those who yell and scream about the whole Tanach being a myth are uneducated, and Jews have every right to be proud of and enjoy our heritage, in line with the right of every other ethnic people on the face of the earth. There is a difference between "Judaism", which is the belief in god, and extends from minimalist observance to life-consuming Orthodox observance, and "Yiddishkeit" or "Jewishness" which is taking pleasure in our culture without believing in or observing all the commandments in the Tanach. And even there, there are SO many writings about how to observe the mitzvot, that you could get really lost, so it's basically up to you to enjoy (And I mean that) your Jewishness without letting anyone else, whether Jewish or Atheist, try to determine what you should or shouldn't do, or insult you because of the fact that you know more than they do (I had that experience too, which is why I don't bother with this site very much any more -- but I wanted to respond to your concerns, and to tell you that the anti-Semites in the main room are mostly not worth bothering with.)
I would like some input from fellow Jews....Am I wrong to believe that Moses lead the Hebrews out of Egypt? or that he even existed? Are there any facts in the Old Testament or is all made up?....I have been getting slaughtered in the main room with my beliefs....Most of them are trying to tell me that the entire Bible is just a Myth made up to make the Jews proud of their heritage...I would be interested in your opinions....
Alan......Like the Germans would agree to that....Israel belongs to the Jews now and they are doing well...Good luck to anyone who attempts to defeat them...
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