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Latest Activity: on Monday
Started by jlaz Jun 2.
Started by Diana D. Last reply by Alan Perlman Apr 15.
Started by Cecilia. Last reply by Michael Pianko Mar 20.
Right, they don't even believe in the legitimacy of the state of Israel, fucking idiots.
My Jewish cred is thorough: two Eastern European families of immigrants (maternal grandfather Hymie Schwartz, a pattern-maker, and Jake Perlman, a tailor, something of a character, packed heat, maybe in case the Cossacks came back). Yiddish and Yiddish accent on both sides. Parents spoke English, thoroughly acculturated into watered-down, drive-by Judaism. Orthodox wouldn't consider them Jewish, but they don't care.
"The Jews are like everybody else, only more so."
Everyone's birth is a genetic accident. My mother is a Jewish Puerto Rican and my daddy was pure Ashkenazi. Considerable human ancestry ...
It kills me to see a secular Israel cater to men who spit on the flag then demand to be supported while they make babies and, oh yeah, discuss pilpul. It is enough. As outside political and financial support for the state of Israel dwindles, the government cannot afford to succor able-bodied people who give NOTHING in return.
Alan, you're not a Jew? Gentile mother? Well, you'll have had your moments as have we all.
I know what I am. I am peeved.
Excellent discussion here, and I would like to participate more in this thread. My Judaism is a genetic accident and a cultural familiarity (been to many more Seders than Midnight Masses). That's it.
I don't hate Jews, but I know they're capable of the same bigotry, sense of specialnesss, and ritual/fantasy engagement as the practitioners of other religions.
It's heartbreaking to see Israel, founded as a secular stste, slide into religiosity. I find it profoundly irritating and stupid that the Israeli govt. allows so many of these Orthodox idiots to study Torah full-time and avoid military service or in fact any productive work.
Mordecai, loved your comment. You know who you are.
I had a feeling about this, Natalie. And I tell you that I figure I'll spend time mostly in this club. Of course, I'll "shop around" but I recently left Delphi Forums because fundie xtians had pretty much moved in and set up housekeeping.
I'm tired of dealing with people who believe the world is theirs to rule because some demon told them so. It's hard enough , life, without irrational jerks threatening to make me an "un-person" (or worse) because I am in touch with, you know, reality.
As I walk through "their" world, I am damned repeatedly. I am ethnically Ashkenazi and Puerto Rican, politically centrist, a heathen, and I dunno, some sort of dog. But I bite, and I intend to live in dignity. My citizenship is not "conditional", as a human being i expect the same esteem I give to others. Even if they are a bunch of fig bat doodyheads. ;-)
Well, Mordekhai, I have come across any number of Jew-Hating Atheists here, too. They speak from complete ignorance of the difference between believing in god, and the fact that we are an ethnic and cultural entity just as much as any other people in the world, and don't deserve their scorn and hatred. That's why I have really stopped doing much in other threads, and restrict my participation only to the threads where I have found reasonable people. Just because someone claims to be atheist doesn't mean they don't harbor bigotry.
Shalom! I have just joined up here and will gradually become more active. Thank god I found other online atheist Jews! Some of the places I've been harbored Jew-hating atheists. Oyvavoy!
Comment by Michael Pianko1 second ago Delete Comment
You have all of your organs. I do not. Abuse is abuse even if you are not comfortable admitting it and you could STILL do Jewish culture if you are intact. Nobody takes off peoples underwear at a klezmer performance or Israeli Independence day celebration and checks to make sure all males have the proper amount of tissue missing. When you hear of someone who is going to have a kid, you really ought to inform them about why they must not let their son get circumcised. This abuse happens because otherwise good people like you refuse to speak up and say anything. The holocause should have taught us that bad things happen when otherwise good people just remain silent. If you think really hard about it, being circumcised is like having a big sign on your body that says, hey everybody, I'm Jewish! Come and get me!
Michael, one of the good things about freedom of and from religion is that you are free to do anything you think is ethical as long as it is legal too. If you should have a son, and don't want to circumcise him, it's your right, Mom notwithstanding. To tell the truth, I didn't want to circumcise my son, either, but felt compelled to because of my mother and my husband. So he had an Orthodox circumcision, and *I* cried more than he did (he only let out one little wail, and that was it -- the wine put him to sleep), because I didn't want to see my baby hurt, and I had been looking at that normal little penis when I changed him for 8 days.
What I'm trying to say is that cultural pressure IS strong, but if I had been of stronger mind I would have refused it. But I was a weak little ninny at the time. I once apologized to my son for doing it, and he said he held no grudge and what is done is done, but I ALSO think that this is as much a personal decision for the parent as the choice to abort or carry the pregnancy. I really do believe in freedom of religion, and while I know you are anti-circumcision, and I will never know exactly what you feel, I don't feel comfortable making that decision for anyone else.
I meant *foot binding*,
The Shema even says something about how you are supposed to love the lord our god and take these words to heart... and in 2nd paragraph it says, if you don't love god enough he will close up the heavens and it won't rain and the crop won't grow.
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