Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by shiran on July 23, 2010 at 12:51am

Not the state, that for sure. Secular Jewish in Israel, which are the majority of the Jewish population of Israel, are suffering a while from the orthodox Jewish parties as well as from their voters. My guess- next elections there will be another party which its goal is to separate religion from state like we had Shinuy before. A party which I intend to vote for.
This bill is absolute a shame to the Jewish state. I never thought I would be ashamed to be Jewish in Israel. luckly for us (or not, depends who you ask) the vote about the legislation of the bill is postpone for 6 months. Maybe we will be saved from the biggest mistake the government of Israel can do? 2 petitions against the bill were also made in the suprim court of Israel, and those 2 were "freezen" as well as the vote for the bill.

Personal ask- please, during those 6 months don't stop pressing the government of Israel about that bill, don't let us sink more and more in the religious forcing.

Permalink Reply by Nathan Hevenstone on July 23, 2010 at 1:51am

It has apparently been assured that the bill will not pass voting, although I'm at a "wait-and-see" point on that. Supposedly this is not the first time the bill has made it out of committee... just the first time it's getting any serious attention. Of course, I say "supposedly" because I'm not sure of that, as I couldn't find anything from the past on it, so...

If this happens, BTW, apparently only 10% of world Jews will be officially counted as actual Jews.

The down-fall of Israel won't be caused by Palestinians, even Muslims. It will be caused by these radical Jews.

Permalink Reply by shiran on July 23, 2010 at 3:50am

As far as I know, this bill is new.

90% of the Jewish people in the world were non-Jewish who converted to Judeaism?
Let me remind you- by the Halacha, a person is consider Jewish if:
1. He was born to Jewish mother.
2. He converted to Judeaism by the Halacha.

The bill is about the second option, which basicly denies the reform and conservative conversions and therefor a Jewish who was converted by one of the 2 is not qualified to have Israeli citizenship.

Permalink Reply by Michael Pianko on May 11, 2011 at 11:17pm

So do you mean to implicitly admit that if you have a son and you are ethnically Jewish, your son will still be Jewish just because the mother is Jewish even if you don't get him circumcised at all?

Permalink Reply by Nathan Hevenstone on May 11, 2011 at 11:23pm

This is exactly what's implied. If your mother's Jewish, then you're Jewish.

Permalink Reply by Prog Rock Girl on July 23, 2010 at 8:43am

10% of all Jews? How many people is that anyway? I thought the population of Jews is in the millions? I don't see what good can come of this.

Even outside this bill, I come across lots of people who have decreed themselves experts on my ethnicity and who want to lecture me about what I am and what I am not. Lots of people told me "if you don't follow the religion you're not Jewish". Meanwhile my relatives will lecture me if I say I'm anything but Jewish. So either way I get lectured! This is just one reason I don't readily tell people about it.

Permalink Reply by Nathan Phillips on December 10, 2011 at 10:13pm

Perhaps there can be a new scholarly field dedicated to what it is to be Jewish, that way it wouldn't be simply a matter of religious nor secular authority telling people about it.  I'd call it Judiology.

Permalink Reply by E Gross on March 16, 2013 at 3:45pm

I am an Israeli who lives in community that is 75% da'ti leumi comunity and 25% black hat community. I suspect that the one guy down the road might also be an athiest. So yea, I am a closet athiest. Married within an orthodox family, with grandchildren.

 

Now, why would I care one iota who gets to make up the rules who can join a religion where I not only don't believe that the Torah is from God, that I don't believe that there is a God?

 

I don't. In fact, I would prefer that they make it so tough that NOBODY will join. "You're not satisfied with your myth of God, Hey, tough shit, we don't want you either!" It would be best for the world. Looking for a monotheistic religion and can't stomach the pseudo-monotheism of Christianity or the wacky "Let's kill in the name of Allah? Here's an idea: go worship a rock or wake up."

 

That is my expression of it as an atheist. If I were to put on my "make believe I care" hat, I would express dismay at how the chareidim are controlling who gets to join and can "un-convert" people, and I am encouraged that Shas and other such parties are excluded from the coalition. With a secularlist in chare og the education system, keeping a stranglehold on the Chareidmim in Yeshivot, we might see some other negotiations. But then, I am speaking as one who has no share in the World to Come! :D

Permalink Reply by Michael Pianko on March 17, 2013 at 4:35pm

According to a few rabbi's and religious Jews I have talked to after coming out as an atheist, when I say that I used to be Jewish and now I am an atheist, they said, nah, you are not an atheist, you are Jewish! Next time I am going to say, who cares or what difference does it mater what you want to label me as? You just need to find fun hobbies and activities to do so you know you are having a nice life given that this is the only life there is, and why worry about or care who your ancestors were or which system of nonsense and obsessive-compulsive behaviors they did and believed in?