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For Atheists of Jewish origin and others interested in Jewish history and culture.

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Circumcision

Started by Freethinker31. Last reply by Freethinker31 on Saturday. 2 Replies

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Comment by Freethinker31 on August 18, 2014 at 10:53pm

Natalie....After  reading  your  post  again, I realized what you were trying  to covey to me...As an Atheist Jew, I can now  pick and choose what parts  of our  culture I can live with and not care  what anyone  thinks....It means  a lot  to hear it from a fellow Jew and  I want to thank you again....

Comment by Natalie A Sera on August 18, 2014 at 10:02pm

Even if it turns out that there was no slavery in Egypt, and no Exodus, there is something to be learned from that story, and the fact that it has been passed on for SO long tells me that it has its own internal validity, even if it didn't happen just the way it was said to have happened. But then I don't have a problem with religions when they make the lives of people better; it's only when they destroy people and cause strife and discord and assert their claim that they are the only true religion, and therefore need to rule the whole world that my hackles get raised.  Judaism hasn't done that for more than 2 millennia, but we have some cousins who still believe that they are commanded by god to do just that.

Comment by Freethinker31 on August 18, 2014 at 5:57pm

Thank you Grinning Cat and Natalie.....I am proud  of  my heritage,and was taken aback by those  who tried  to undermine it...I do realize the Old Testament  got   the dates  wrong, but many  of the stories  are  true,..I am  still confused  about the Exodus from Egypt since  archeological digs  have found  no artifacts of the Israelites  in the Sinai..I need  to do more  research.....  

Comment by Grinning Cat on August 18, 2014 at 2:07pm

Of note: secular humanistic rabbi Judith Seid's book God-Optional Judaism (which I recommend, btw) got a thoughtful, positive five-star Amazon review, which I just discovered, from a (theistic) Hasidic rabbi! "Seid has given a lot of serious thought to her presentation and, whether or not you can accept her point(s) of view, it is clear that she is fully committed to her Jewish identity. I recommend this book to anyone -- Jewish or not -- who would like to understand why being Jewish is so much more that a 'faith' or 'religion.'"

And Natalie, thanks for pointing out the nature of the Hebrew scriptures, and how the name "Tanach" rejects the theistic assumptions inherent in "Old Testament". What you said afterwards bears repeating: "it's basically up to you to enjoy your Jewishness without letting anyone else... try to determine what you should or shouldn't do."

[No gods needed; and I agree with Seid that that too is valid Judaism.]

Comment by Natalie A Sera on August 18, 2014 at 12:07pm

Freethinker, the Tanach ( a better word than Old Testament, which implies that there really is a god who made a covenant with the Jews, and then threw them overboard when he made his New Testament documenting his new covenant with the Christians) is a mixture of mythology, some of which predates the Jews, a genealogy, a set of laws (which don't make sense to us, but we don't live in that time period), sermons or preachings by the prophets, literature, poems, and proverbs, and gradually creeping in, some verifiable history, such as the location of the First and Second Temples, the Pools of Siloam, and as recorded in other peoples' histories, conquests and defeats. So those who yell and scream about the whole Tanach being a myth are uneducated, and Jews have every right to be proud of and enjoy our heritage, in line with the right of every other ethnic people on the face of the earth. There is a difference between "Judaism", which is the belief in god, and extends from minimalist observance to life-consuming Orthodox observance, and "Yiddishkeit" or "Jewishness" which is taking pleasure in our culture without believing in or observing all the commandments in the Tanach. And even there, there are SO many writings about how to observe the mitzvot, that you could get really lost, so it's basically up to you to enjoy (And I mean that) your Jewishness without letting anyone else, whether Jewish or Atheist, try to determine what you should or shouldn't do, or insult you because of the fact that you know more than they do (I had that experience too, which is why I don't bother with this site very much any more -- but I wanted to respond to your concerns, and to tell you that the anti-Semites in the main room are mostly not worth bothering with.)

Comment by Freethinker31 on August 18, 2014 at 10:44am

I would like some input from fellow Jews....Am I wrong to believe that Moses lead the Hebrews  out of Egypt? or that he even existed? Are there any  facts in the Old Testament  or is all made up?....I have been getting slaughtered in the main room with my beliefs....Most of them are trying to tell me  that the entire Bible is just  a Myth  made up to make the Jews  proud of their  heritage...I would be interested in your  opinions....

Comment by Freethinker31 on August 4, 2014 at 9:12am

Alan......Like  the Germans  would   agree to that....Israel belongs  to the Jews  now  and  they  are doing well...Good luck to anyone  who attempts  to defeat them...

Comment by Alan Perlman on August 3, 2014 at 11:29pm

PS. Why give the Jews a homeland in the most violent part of the world, just because the Bible says so?  Why not give them a chunk of Bavaria?  

Comment by Alan Perlman on August 3, 2014 at 11:26pm

Freethinker, There's a Philip Roth alt-history novel, The Plot against America, in which the country becomes much more anti-Semitic (under a Lindbergh Presidency!).  But I don't worry  about American Jews - they're thoroughly entrenched and assimilated...and  financially/politically too influential and too committed to Israel.  

Comment by Freethinker31 on August 3, 2014 at 3:27pm

Alan ......Sadly  this is true.....But I haven't  given up on them yet.. Although  I agree with you  on American Jews  having it pretty good here.....It still is nice to know there is somewhere we can go  as a last  resort......My  ancestors  emigrated  from  Russia  when  the  Cosacks  tried to kill off the Jews  in the Pogroms...So  Israel  is the only Homeland  I would have ,if anything  bad  happens  in the US..   

 

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