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Hang With Friends

Location: Earth
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Come on in, pull up a chair!

Picture yourself spending some time with congenial friends, sharing your lives and pictures from your cell phones." They're curious about that cool game, song, movie, camping trip, art show, or other event that fascinated you. You talk about all kinds of stuff, poetry, styles, personal achievements, relationships, and bad days. You can share your inner child, and laugh together. They sympathetically listen to your feelings about serious topics like politics or climate change, even when they don't agree.

Personal validation comes from paying attention to one another, giving more than you get. Everyone respects you and themselves, despite our amazing range of personal tastes and interests. They'll tell you they don't agree with an idea or behavior without implying you're a bad person or somehow deficient. It's an "I'm OK, You're OK" kind of fellowship, where nobody tries to make himself look better by picking on somebody else.

Nobody here is into mind games. A discussion started with a loaded guilt-throwing question will be deleted.

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Discussion Forum

Forest Fire

Started by Patricia. Last reply by Patricia 16 hours ago. 14 Replies

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change.org

Started by Patricia. Last reply by The Flying Atheist on Thursday. 6 Replies

There's a new petition taking off on Change.org, and we think you might be…Continue

Optical Illusions

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Idaho Spud Jul 3. 58 Replies

This one seems a bit creepy, like the middle one shouldn't be able to change rotation like that. from Cheezburger.comContinue

Saving Number 90 - From Seth Andrews (The Thinking Atheist)

Started by Loren Miller. Last reply by Joan Denoo Jul 1. 9 Replies

Seth says himself that the following is a departure from the usual fare his YouTube channel features.  Personally, I think it's a positive and constructive move, because it demonstrates that no, we are NOT just about atheism.  We're also very much…Continue

Tags: abuse, animal, puppy mills, Henry, The Thinking Atheist

Human Rights for Atheists, Agnostics and Secularists

Started by Loren Miller. Last reply by Loren Miller Jun 27. 11 Replies

I just ran onto this YouTube video, promoting a change.org petition aimed at amending the United Nations charter supporting the abolition of all anti-blasphemy laws. The petition referenced by the video is…Continue

Tags: petition, anti-blasphemy laws, UN, United Nations

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Comment by Joan Denoo on May 24, 2013 at 10:13pm

Former Whitworth college president, Edward Lindaman,  formerly director of programming for the Apollo space project, helped me organize "Toward a theory of family violence: its antecedents, treatment and prevention". He taught that when confronted with a problem for which old thinking and procedures fail to accomplish tasks, start thinking in the future tense.  He used an example of building a system that would get a man on the moon and return him safely to earth. They did not have the fuels, plastics, metals, navigation equipment or even the nuts and bolts and a lot of other things needed to accomplish their mission. They started with what they had, imagined and created what they needed for the future and then built the rockets and manned space capsules. They thought in the future tense.  

Gathering information for my masters' degree, I was totally overwhelmed by the amount of data I collected in support of my theses, in spite of the fact there were no books on the subject in city or county libraries or in any of the local colleges and universities. I did find journal articles buried in the stacks of Psych and Soc abstracts.  My interviews with physicians, psychiatrists, ministers, counselors, therapists, teachers, emergency room doctors and nurses and personnel, and police resulted in 18,000 3x5 cards of date.   

Overwhelmed by the amount of information gathered from primary sources and literature reviews, I asked Ed Lindaman for help and in 90 minutes we developed a framework, an outline, a non-biased way to present findings so that I could be free of the accusation of bias. My thesis completed and put into the college thesis library system, I received both praise and condemnation. 

Working on my doctoral dissertation at a Roman Catholic University, I wrote "A Splendid Heresy", about abuse, faith,  prayer, marriage and divorce, child rearing, contraception, abortion. With each written topic I received valuable and appreciated criticisms from priests and professors because they forced me to dig deeper and wider into my thinking of such things as family, religion, cultural norms, power/powerlessness, agency/helplessness, independent/dependent behaviors, consequences of attitudes, beliefs, customs, traditions, and values.

In the end I failed to earn a Ph.D. because I was "biased." 

Think carefully about the role of education: is it to indoctrinate or explore?

 

Guide to the Edward B. Lindaman Papers 
1965-1982

http://nwda-db.wsulibs.wsu.edu/ark:/80444/xv40359

 

Thinking in the Future Tense, Edward B. Lindaman.

http://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Future-Tense-Edward-Lindaman/dp/0805...

 

Comment by Joan Denoo on May 24, 2013 at 10:05pm

Tom, you are a delight!  For years I have been making noises trying to get people to hear what legions of people have been trying to say and for whatever reason, are not heard, or do not speak clearly enough, or speak to deaf ears. Just think of the tears and suffering of African black slaves who were not heard, even though they gave voice to their sorrow. 
It is well past time for people to stand together, speak up in a single voice and make claims to rights of humanity and access to justice. We have to have the courage, wisdom, and insight, and if we stand up, speak out, refuse to submit, our whole world will be better off. 

Hunger, disease, ignorance, poverty, powerlessness are crimes against humanity, and we must hold humanity responsible. Our nation is so far off track, even our bridges fall down into rivers as we bomb and blast people too poor to crawl out of caves to protect themselves. Where are our priorities. We should be working to make all people thrive. The people from Afghanistan, Pakistan, Indian, China, USA, Mexico ... everyone one has the right to thrive and become fully functional to their capacities. Just think, if the working people of all those countries could afford to buy goods and services and uplift their nations, how much better Earth will be. 

Comment by Tom Sarbeck on May 24, 2013 at 6:48pm

Joan, if in your sentence

"I most humbly disagree with those who say my kind of thinking puts us at “us vs. them” mentality,...."

you will replace "most humbly" with "most strongly",

you will make my day, week, month, year, and maybe decade.

I might even relocate briefly to Washington so I can vote for you for governor.

Comment by Joan Denoo on May 24, 2013 at 3:16pm

Ed just sent me this video of a group of ducks who had been penned up their whole lives. A rescue group brought them to a safe haven, made sure they were healthy, and then turned them out to the field and stream. The poor ducks looked afraid of water, and it took great patience to introduce them to their natural environment. My heart just sings. Ducks are made ducks to do duck things. Humans are humans made to do human things. The natural laws of healthy community provide the nourishment, compassion and love they need. Guilt, shame, fear, unfounded hope are no remedies. 

Hoarded Ducks See Water For The First Time.

Comment by Joan Denoo on May 24, 2013 at 3:11pm

Lillie, I know what you mean. We are created as participants in nature and nature has a way of teaching us how to be in community. When a bunch of nonsense rules interfere with nature, all kinds of abominations happen, i.e. priests and little boys, parents who allow their children to die untreated when simple remedies exist.  

Comment by Lillie on May 24, 2013 at 2:52pm

Thanks for these words of wisdom, Joan.  I like your angst word because that is exactly what I felt during any religious service I was ever in.

Comment by Joan Denoo on May 24, 2013 at 2:34pm

People who demand, teach, and preach dysfunctional attitudes, beliefs, customs, tractions and values are:


Hitler, Nazism, 

 

Pol Pot ,Communist peasant farming, Cambodian genocide 

 

King Leopold II of Belgium, founder and sole owner of  Congo Free State

 

Rev. Richard C. Halverson, Presbyterian Minister

Taught me the Passive Gospel, yield, pray, obey, submit, sacrifice myself, being a battered wife was living my life in imitation of the crucified Christ and of all women I was most blessed; Rejoice in my crucifixion

.

Rev. Richar Leon, Presbyterian Minister

in his final sermon, Leon told his flock that “Peter laid out three conversions necessary for a godly life: a conversion to Jesus Christ to save one from sin; to Christ's church to save one from the "tyranny of the self"; and to Christ's mission, to carry his message to the world.”

 

All these admonitions neglect the basic needs of human thriving. There is no sin from which to be saved, there is dysfunction and much of it is caused by the foolish teaching of religions. There is no tyranny of the self, there is the mind, body, and emotion of an individual that needs nourishment and it cannot happen if you think your body is your tyrant. It is your teacher. There is no message to carry to the world. The reality is love of self, self-respect through effort, living respectfully in community, and using your mind, body, and emotions to guide you to flourish and thrive.  You are your best teacher.

When it comes to quantum physics or mathematics or history or social studies or music or art, and etc, you may need a teacher to guide you.

 

Battering spouses and parents

They tell common stories and all based on dysfunctional behaviors. Learn to function in healthy community and you will flourish. Sometimes we have to divorce our families in order to get healthy, but the price is small compared to the benefit. Another issue that often happens, if an individual from a dysfunctional family learns how to live fully mentally and physically healthy, as a mature adult, family members sometimes come to learn life skills.

 

Joan M. Denoo, 2013-05-24

Comment by Joan Denoo on May 24, 2013 at 2:33pm

We and They 

Have you noticed factors held in common by these men listed below? They all know what is best for you, they teach and/or preach a dogma based on notions of domination and exploitation, they create institutions that instruct people to submit to their ideas, to obey, to yield, to sacrifice yourself to their beliefs, they have faith in ideas based on power over, not power with, and many people under their influence fail to flourish.  

Teaching college classes, parenting classes, at boys’ ranches for out of control boys, and teaching in battered women and children’s shelters, and in the county and state prison systems, I kept hearing common stories. I kept a tickler file and recorded the name and styles of those to whom my students and private clients listened, believed, and had faith in. 

Symptoms presented to me were depression, anxiety, overcompensation, underachieving, acting our, self-mutilation, headaches, stomach problems, and general angst in their personality.

My strategy, when working with individuals and especially when working with groups of people, was to teach them life skills such as assertiveness, active listening for meaning and feeling, identifying feelings, problem solving, conflict resolution, negotiating, reframing, organizing, scheduling, budgeting, and other basic personal and interpersonal skills. These all very easily can be taught and learned. Even the most rebellious boy, or the most depressed wife, or the outrageously defiance client can see the virtue of these skills and quickly turn their lives into a more efficient, effective and fulfilling way to be.

No, we do not deal with Hitler, Pol Pot, King Leopold II, Rev. Richard C, Halverson, or Rev. Richard Leon. But we have the same basic principles being imposed on individuals that cripple them and prevent them from being truly and fully human.

I most humbly disagree with those who say my kind of thinking puts us at “us vs. them” mentality, and we should not do that. I say, most emphatically, STOP IT! When some one or institution teaches the Passive Gospel or political strategies with the same message, we cripple people’s minds. We bind their minds in ways they do not understand or recognize. The harder they try, the worst their angst becomes. When we hear killer words and phrases such as these men preached, taught, and dictated, the individual cannot and will not flourish.

Just look at your own experiences in life. When others try to control you or dominate you, or tell you something that isn’t healthy, how do you feel? Do you submit, feel guilt or shame, obey without question? These are the attitudes, beliefs, customs, traditions and values that mind-bind, not for your benefit but for the ego enhancement of someone who wants to control you and dictate to you who you are and how you are to be.

If they say and do things that empower you to flourish, you have a true and trusted friend, worthy of respect. If you feel angst, pay attention to the words and attitudes of those with whom you associate. It is a We-and-They world! If we don’t understand that, we could spend a lifetime struggling to flourish and not have the tools to make it happen.

Joan M. Denoo, 2013-05-24

Comment by Steph S. on May 24, 2013 at 11:04am

Comment by booklover on May 24, 2013 at 8:41am

You're right Lillie!  Too many people get away with driving like idiots!  I always tell my kids to drive like everyone else is going to do something stupid (drive defensively), and then be pleasantly surprised when people do it right and are polite to you!  Sad it has to be that way!

Happy Friday Friends~ Mindy

 

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