this is why i am an atheist. long ago a friend died, and i had to try figure out why. i was still a mild believer. my grandma had repeatedly fed me the mantra, god is love. so why wud a just, benevolent god, who is love, create this world, filled as it is with evil? thats my question.

nother query. how many of you were turned to atheism by this?

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That's a really good book Carl -- I like "Misquoting Jesus" as well.

Sexism is what really started me questioning my beliefs and then reading the bible and seeing all the horrible things in there.

yes, if yer a woman, im really suprised that any women are in any of the judechhristianmuslemo religions

The problem is that when you're a woman in the middle of one of the major religions, you don't see the ridiculous and immoral "lessons' in the buy-bull or the man-made rules created to control women and make them feel like they are inferior and flawed.  If it is the way one was raised, what they see and hear every day becomes normal and one assumes that ALL families work the same way.  Some people are, early on, able to see there are inconsistencies and unbelievable fables in religion and intuitively know religion is BS...others are unable to see it until they reach their teens, others in middle age (like me), and some NEVER give up the comfort of a afterlife, "god's grace," and the fear of hell - all with no basis of evidence.

that sounds just like the men. but in the fake letter to tim, paul famously instructs women to shut up in church. how any woman cud devote herself to such a religionid a mystery to me.

I look back and wonder how I could be a member of such a terrible organization, but we are taught from infancy that we are flawed and it is a woman's place to be meek and quiet, to do as we are told, etc.  When you've grown up in that environment, it is normal.  THAT is why women are members of just about any religion - at least christiantiy. 

Paula - I don't know why certain people absolutely rebel at authority. I remember being six years old and questioning the things my parents did. They didn't appreciate it - but eventually accepted that it was my nature to question every stupid damn thing that went on in our society.

Church didn't fair any better and I was told by the time I was 9 or so that 'The thinking has already been done'. All the answers will be forthcoming from your church leaders at the appropriate time they choose. Until then, accept that your leaders know what's best and stop asking questions.'

Yeah, that went over real well.

wow. when i wasa a child i larned that agreeing with watever the big folks wanted was wat id do.  they were gonna do it to me anyway. but i never enjoyed it so i wasnt maso.  i tried to be a perfec child. i was cute had a great smile. some times that worked but more often then it did it dint. the big ones did wat they wanted anyway. i remember often thinking, buit not saying, but you said do this not that before. so i wasant a rebel as a kid. i was trying to survive. i did.

Sounds very familiar to me. I still get sick when people are gushing about ´happy, careless children´.

// they were gonna do it to me anyway //

NOT ME! I was never going to 'submit' to authority - expecially when it was not respected nor earned. I was always that way. I didn't really want to be the leader - but in no way was I ever going to be a follower.

Whatever the 'big folks' wanted - I resisted. I somehow knew they were full of crap - and by age 17 I was out on my own taking care of myself forever. I simply caught them in way to many outright lies over the years to trust them. Parents and church authorities seemed to fall into the same pattern - if someone in authority says it's so - 'The Thinking has Been Done' and who are you to question? That sort of putting-down was never quite right to me.

Wow Steven, that is pretty cool that you were so resistant to their mind control. I just wrote on another discussion that religion is like the ultimate wool over your eyes because not only do they frame all the questions for you, they frame your entire worldview before you are even born. I also said that anyone who succumbs to this attempt at mind control hasn't become fully human. You came into this world fully-formed as a human. It seems to take most people a lot longer. I was the same way as you, I never let anyone put anything past me and I was an atheist well before my bar-mitzvah at the age of 13.

Wanderer - As you and many others well know - there is a certain price to be paid when you resist authority - even your so-alled 'friends' abandon you...which eventually I was pleased about because i didn't want to be around or associate with such people.

The price paid for such an attitude within this society can scar you and while it may make you 'stronger' it also makes you damn angry at such a system.

yeh, carl, its enuf to make me beleeve wimmen r masokists.

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