All religions give women a status subordinate to man. Does it mean that women had better status before religion emerged and then religion changed their status  OR does it mean that the women had such subordinate status even before religion evolved and religion only perpetuated that status ?

Do all women believe that religion is the reason why they are denied equal status in the society?

Does a religion that have powerful godesses along with gods, give better status to women?

Do religious women willingly and happily accept their religion defined status?

Do atheist women believe that they will enjoy true equality when religions vanish?

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Replies to This Discussion

KIM BATEMAN

Hinduism still worshipe godesses.

Chris Breman

And about equality for myself - I am anybody´s equal, I know it. That some people think different is their problem, not mine.

You have directed all questions to yourself. Why should any one doubt your equality?

It is believed there were some matriarchial societies in ancient times, but not many. My questions therefore also refer to religions, which also means societies, that believed or believe in goddesses too.

Check out Riane Eisler's The Chalice and the Blade. As an anthropologist, study of early cultures led to her Cultural Transformation Theory.

I have a statue of Venus of Willendorf on my bookshelf.

in my studies of religions  the world had a goddess worship system  all around the world  regardless of what country or deitry  was worshiped and women were held in high  status  and the old woman of the villiage   was revered as the wise woman/ then came the the one god  sytsem,  and it first happend inthe jewish religion ,and      others followered the same way  /idont belived woman happily followed  the devine status as  most religions teach women to obey men and god and dont have equal status  and religion does play a part in women being denied equal status in religion as they are the  ones cleaning churches  and religions blame women   for anything ,   and not uplift them in any way . may be if theres no need for anymore religions, women and men will hold equal footing in the furture

KIM BATEMAN

in my studies of religions  the world had a goddess worship system  all around the world

If the world once worshipped a godess and then changed to male-god worship abd if the status of women has changed because of this change, then the question that comes to mind 'How women accepted such a change or how did they reacted to the change?'

Read the Old Testicle Testament.  There are so many stories about YHWH telling its people to invade their neighbors and tear down their altars, destroy theirr "trees" and/'or "pillars," etc.  The trees, or pillars, were probably sycamore figs that were sacred to the goddess-worshippers.

Compare that to the conquests of Mohammed's followers, and what the Spaniards (and their priests) did in North and South America.

It's an old, old story.

"...then came the the one god  sytsem,  and it first happend inthe jewish religion ..."

I really think that male monotheism predates Abram/Abraham (and then Moses) by a few millennia.

And no, the goddess-worshippers did NOT quietly submit.  They fought back, but the Northern (brachycephalic - Aryan) warriors had superior physical strength, and had developed a new style of warfare...fighting from horse-drawn chariots.  It took a couple of thousand years, and waves of genocidal invasions...and sometimes they adopted the goddess religion for a while...but the adherents of the male god eventually prevailed.  Especially when the Levite priests attained power and rewrote everything.

They turned the goddess religion(s) upside down, invented the Eve story and made her the airhead/villaness/temptress, and the sacred snakes of the prophetesses became associated with evil.

I'm not telling this well; I'm not a scholar, but I strongly recommend (again) that you all read When God Was a Woman.  It's an eye-opener, not only concernig how religions developed and changed, but the level of sophistication of the ancient world will amaze anyone who has not studied the subject closely.

On P. 66 (of the trade paperback) the author quotes Sheila D. Collins: "Theology is ultimately political. The way human communities deify the transcendant and determine the categories of good and evil have more to do with the power dynamics of the social systems which create the theologies than with the spontaneous revelation of truth from another quarter."

That is a powerful statement, IMO. 

Remember that less than 200 years ago in this country slave ownership was legal, and the proponents of slavery used the buybull to support their position.  Modern xians deny that, and newer translations of the buybull have sneakily morphed the word "slave" into "servant." Even the KJV says "servant," because the British of that era were becoming uncomfortable with the idea of slavery.  But the earliest Greek versions use the word "doulos," and that means "bond servant," "one born into slavery."  NOT A hired housekeeper or a day-worker, but a human being who is totally owned by another human being.

http://www.angelfire.com/goth/darkforce/barker.html

Then Americans slowly began to realize that owning human beings, the way you would own a horse or a mule, was incredibly evil, and eventually xians began to gloss over "doulos," or to ignore the passages where slave ownwers are told how much they can beat a slave who does his or her job poorly...and so on and so forth.  But it takes a long time, generations, for these changes to filter down into the mass consciousness of a population.

That's just one example.

Please read the book. Read lots of books!

KTHXBAI

sk8eycat

Thanks for a brilliant answer. Your answers take care of most of my questions, unlike many other answers.

I have to admit that I had Merlin Stone's book open on top of my desk while I was typing that.  I can't keep all those quotes and data in my head anymore.  (I also had a cat on my lap...very awkward.)

Can you order books from Amazon, or other online book dealers?  I am not kiddding about how important I think When God Was a Woman is in helping people understand how the Mediterranean/Indo European cultures developed over time...and why they developed the way they did.

It also reinforces a line I read in another book (fiction, but I love SF and Fantasy fiction!)  " 'Primitive' doesn't necessarily mean 'stupid.' "  Just because our ancestors didn't have indoor plumbing and air conditioning doesn't mean they were illiterate, and lacked imagination.

Oh, well.  I'm happy that I helped you understand "how it happened."

;>)

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