Godless in the garden


Godless in the garden

Welcome to gardeners, growers of veggies, fruits, flowers, and trees!  


Welcome  backyard hen enthusiasts, worm farmers, beekeepers & composters!

Location: Planet Earth
Members: 170
Latest Activity: yesterday

Welcome to Eden!

If you like to dig in the dirt, plant & prune, grow food & flowers, or sit and watch as someone else does your landscaping, you'll find something here to discuss!

Selected topics, in sort of alphabetical order:
Aging.  Gardening with an older body.
bees.  insectary.  insectsbee gardening. Beneficial insects.  insects drive evolution

Compost.  herecontaminated compost.

Backyard Chickens here. here. here. here.

Edible yard.  here  urban farmfront yards.
Growing Fruits


Fragrance and Scenthere.
Fruit growing.  in a small space, by backyard orchard culture.
Frugal gardening.  labels.

Gardening for future generations.  also permaculture, trees, historic varieties, soil

Hegelkultur here, here, here

Heritage and historic varieties.   heresources

locally grown plants to prevent blight transmission here.

Moon Phase Widget here. Moon phase topic here.

PeppersHot peppers.

Permaculture MollisonFalk  Liu, Joan's IntroTransformation in 90 days, Perm Principles at work. Food forest, Holzer

Potatoes.  here.

Rooftop gardening.  here

Seed starting. starting spring crops.

Scientific Gardening.   The Informed Gardener.  The truth about garden remedies.

Soil and soil building - healthy soil microbes, mycelium, dirt is everything, soil analysissoil pH.


Tomatoes.  Myths and truths

Trees.  Tree tunnels.  Ancient tree planting. Plant commemorative trees

Discussion Forum

Permaculture U. of Mass

Started by Joan Denoo Jan 16. 0 Replies

"All I want for christmas is....."

Started by Daniel W. Last reply by Larry Dec 26, 2014. 8 Replies

Gardening in central Texas "pan" soil

Started by Joan Denoo. Last reply by Barbara Livingston Dec 25, 2014. 3 Replies

An Old Lady's Hugelkultur Bed

Started by Barbara Livingston. Last reply by Randall Smith Dec 10, 2014. 3 Replies

Permaculture Concept. Bill Mollison

Started by Joan Denoo. Last reply by Joan Denoo Dec 6, 2014. 2 Replies

My south garden 1993 & 2013

Started by Joan Denoo. Last reply by Barbara Livingston Dec 1, 2014. 1 Reply

Permaculture, Ben Falk

Started by Joan Denoo Nov 30, 2014. 0 Replies

Permaculture, Bill Mollison

Started by Joan Denoo Nov 16, 2014. 0 Replies

Plant Labels

Started by Daniel W. Last reply by Joan Denoo Nov 8, 2014. 21 Replies

Comment Wall


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Comment by Joan Denoo on April 14, 2013 at 4:36pm

Dallas, you are a real jewel! Your incredible site find, "Eating clay", reveals so many different examples of an evolved development. With your research about chalk, we have information to which our mothers and grandmothers didn't have access.

My grandmother used to tell us about her youngest son, my uncle Orville, ate coal. Her doctor told her a child who eats coal needs the minerals it contains. That would been about 1915. Folk medicine may have some credibility.

The animals  and birds shown in the film seem to have this all pretty well figured out, including predatory enemies.  

Have you ever seen butterflies or lady bugs on a seep hole? A very lovely sight we used to enjoy as kids at Lake Chatcolet in Idaho.

Butterflies at the drinking hole

Here is an interesting project:

720,000 ladybugs released

Comment by A Former Member on April 14, 2013 at 2:56pm

@ Chris: Well, you would know. Still, that leaves me curious as to why she would do it. I thought perhaps I'd see what I could find online. I was thinking chalk must surely be made from limestone, which indeed it is: 

Chalk (pron.: /ˈɔːk/) is a soft, white, porous sedimentary rock, a form oflimestone composed of the mineral calcite. Calcite is calcium carbonate or CaCO3. It forms under reasonably deep marine conditions from the gradual accumulation of minute calcite plates (coccoliths) shed from micro-organisms called coccolithophores. It is common to find chert or flint nodules embedded in chalk. Chalk can also refer to other compounds including magnesium silicateand calcium sulfate.

Since it is a form of calcium, it's reasonable to assume that kitchen lore would encourage eating it if it was believed that spinach used up your existing calcium. Still, it doesn't sound very appetizing. 

Under the uses for chalk, wikipedia does not list any culinary uses, except in toothpaste and as an antacid. When I google "adding chalk to spinach" or "eating chalk in spinach" I can't find anything.

Perhaps that was just a regional thing.  

Also, all this talk about eating chalk reminds me about how animals eat clay to counteract toxins in plants, as seen in this video:

Comment by Joan Denoo on April 14, 2013 at 2:43pm
What a nice site to come to upon waking, yes, I said waking ... I didn't wake up until 11:00 AM. Oh my goodness, what a good life I have.
"It's spring. We are so excited we wet our plants!" That is what we do. And I wet my pants in the garden the other day... couldn't make it inside. Oh well, age has its advantages. I can just claim age, not senility.
Chris, your turnip green dish makes my mouth water.
Annie, I love beet tops fixed that way.
Sentient, how are you feeling? I'm thinking of you.
Amer, do you live in the mountains or on the plane? From the Google Earth, it looks like you live right o the border between mountains and plane.
My son, Craig, lives in Littleton, Colorado, right on the break between the Great Planes and the Rockies. It is a stormy place; can't decide if it is mountain weather or planes weather. Very heavy snowfall there.
Spud, how are you doing?
Comment by Plinius on April 14, 2013 at 1:38pm

Thanks for the info, Dallas! And I think she added chalk; she was a fundie who never joked, so what she told me was what she believed herself.

Comment by Annie Thomas on April 14, 2013 at 10:59am

Re: green burials

We have a wonderful green cemetery in my area.


The location is a beautiful area that surrounds a large house that is used for various events.  I've been to a few wedding out there and it is lovely. 

I spoke with a man who had just buried his mother there, and he described what sounded like the most appropriate was to say goodbye to a loved one.  His wife bathed his mother after she died, then they wrapped in a simple shroud. No tombstones are markers are allowed at the cemetery, but you are allowed to plant native vegetation.  This man chose to plant wildflowers, and he spoke of the cemetery getting ready to change their policy on what people can plant.  Many were choosing to plant magnolias, which would eventually create a forest (not good for digging graves). 

I do wonder what the policy is for people who choose to go off to medical school after death?  Something I'll have to inquire about.

I have a friend on the board who occasionally posts on Facebook about needing volunteers to help dig graves there.  Some weekend I hope it will work into my schedule.  It seems like a wonderful way to help out a family in their time of mourning.

Comment by A Former Member on April 14, 2013 at 9:37am

Nice Universe video Joan.

Comment by A Former Member on April 14, 2013 at 8:56am
Comment by A Former Member on April 14, 2013 at 8:55am

@ Chris: I don't think she would have added chalk. She may have just been teasing you when she said that. Likely it was cornstarch or arrow root powder which she added for some reason or another. 

I don't think spinach uses the calcium in your body. From what I recall, it prevents the absorption of calcium because it contains oxalic acid, though I'm not seeing a reference of that on the oxalic acid wiki page. 

However, it does state: 

Calcium oxalate is the most common component of kidney stones. Early investigators isolated oxalic acid from wood-sorrel(Oxalis). Its presence makes it dangerous to eat unripe carambola or monstera fruits. Members of the spinach family are high in oxalates, as is sorrel.[11] Rhubarb leaves contain about 0.5% oxalic acid and jack-in-the-pulpit (Arisaema triphyllum) contains calcium oxalate crystals. Bacteria produce oxalates from oxidation of carbohydrates.[4]

In humans, oxalic acid has an oral LDLo (lowest published lethal dose) of 600 mg/kg.[15]

The toxicity of oxalic acid is due to kidney failure, which arises because it causes precipitation of solid calcium oxalate, the main component of kidney stones. Oxalic acid can also cause joint pain due to the formation of similar precipitates in the joints. Ingestion of ethylene glycol results in oxalic acid as a metabolite which can also cause acute kidney failure.

Comment by Plinius on April 14, 2013 at 1:58am

Chalk - I'm not very sure what she used, Joan, it's so long ago that I saw my mother in the kitchen. But the idea was that some vegs (rhubarb and spinach) use the calcium from your body when your eat them, so you add some calcium to prevent osteoporosis.

I like the burial ideas, but I'm going in for short term recycling. Many people here are waiting for new organs and many die when on the waiting list.   

Comment by Joan Denoo on April 13, 2013 at 11:38pm

Neil deGrasse Tyson stops a religious troll (w/captions)

Dominic and Daniel, I like your ideas of a "green burial in a forest or meadow, no embalming, no casket, just shroud.  The trees and grasses will have minerals from my body."  

I hard a tough time finding this old video, but it makes such good sense to me. 


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