Godless in the garden


Godless in the garden

Welcome to gardeners, growers of veggies, fruits, flowers, and trees!  


Welcome  backyard hen enthusiasts, worm farmers, beekeepers & composters!

Location: Planet Earth
Members: 170
Latest Activity: 19 hours ago

Welcome to Eden!

If you like to dig in the dirt, plant & prune, grow food & flowers, or sit and watch as someone else does your landscaping, you'll find something here to discuss!

Selected topics, in sort of alphabetical order:
Aging.  Gardening with an older body.
bees.  insectary.  insectsbee gardening. Beneficial insects.  insects drive evolution

Compost.  herecontaminated compost.

Backyard Chickens here. here. here. here.

Edible yard.  here  urban farmfront yards.
Growing Fruits


Fragrance and Scenthere.
Fruit growing.  in a small space, by backyard orchard culture.
Frugal gardening.  labels.

Gardening for future generations.  also permaculture, trees, historic varieties, soil

Hegelkultur here, here, here

Heritage and historic varieties.   heresources

locally grown plants to prevent blight transmission here.

Moon Phase Widget here. Moon phase topic here.

PeppersHot peppers.

Permaculture MollisonFalk  Liu, Joan's IntroTransformation in 90 days, Perm Principles at work. Food forest, Holzer

Potatoes.  here.

Rooftop gardening.  here

Seed starting. starting spring crops.

Scientific Gardening.   The Informed Gardener.  The truth about garden remedies.

Soil and soil building - healthy soil microbes, mycelium, dirt is everything, soil analysissoil pH.


Tomatoes.  Myths and truths

Trees.  Tree tunnels.  Ancient tree planting. Plant commemorative trees

Discussion Forum

Gardening in central Texas "pan" soil

Started by Joan Denoo. Last reply by Daniel W 19 hours ago. 2 Replies

An Old Lady's Hugelkultur Bed

Started by Barbara Livingston. Last reply by Randall Smith Dec 10. 3 Replies

Permaculture Concept. Bill Mollison

Started by Joan Denoo. Last reply by Joan Denoo Dec 6. 2 Replies

My south garden 1993 & 2013

Started by Joan Denoo. Last reply by Barbara Livingston Dec 1. 1 Reply

Permaculture, Ben Falk

Started by Joan Denoo Nov 30. 0 Replies

Permaculture, Bill Mollison

Started by Joan Denoo Nov 16. 0 Replies

Plant Labels

Started by Daniel W. Last reply by Joan Denoo Nov 8. 21 Replies

Design with Nature

Started by Joan Denoo Nov 6. 0 Replies

Sepp Holzer´s Permaculture

Started by Joan Denoo. Last reply by Barbara Livingston Nov 6. 1 Reply

Comment Wall


You need to be a member of Godless in the garden to add comments!

Comment by Dominic Florio on April 19, 2013 at 7:40pm

I also loved eating crab apples.  Unfortunately, they do not grow here.  I buy Granny smith apples from the store and people wonder why I eat them.  I think they are great.  I just planted a dwarf mulberry.  We always had the full size trees in our yard when i was a kid.  I used to love the red ones, which weren't ripe yet, while everyone waited for them to turn purple.  Once I was climbing a ladder to pick some berries on a large tree, and a pair of blue jays began attacking me because I was too close to their nest.  Mulberries produce so many fruits, that you never feel competition from the birds.

Comment by Daniel W on April 19, 2013 at 7:18pm

Joan, that's interesting about the cherry fruit fly.  I wonder why I haven't noticed them  Yet.  

I prefer not to spray insecticides, even ones that are safe around humans  If they kill the harmful insects, do they kill the beneficial insects?  The insects that pollinate the trees?  The insects that eat the harmful insects?  The birds that eat the harmful insects?

The main insect, that I can see, that plagues my cherries, is a black aphid.  The aphids seem to associate with ants.  I've read that some  ants domesticate some aphids, herding them and milking them like tiny cows, for honeydew.  I wrap a plastic band around the trunks, and spread supersticky "tanglefoot" on the band.  That stops both aphids and ants.

I assume the fruit fly actually flies, not climbing the trunk.  But if it does climb the trunk, maybe I'm doing something about that without knowing it.

Ants climb fig trees and populate the figs.  Tanglefoot is also great for that issue.

Comment by Joan Denoo on April 19, 2013 at 12:14pm

Daniel, I was wrong in my speculation about the fruit fly flying to the fruit. They come up through the ground. I proved to myself once again that I am fallible. I love it when I find out I am wrong and what is the way to increase the probability of success.  

Comment by Joan Denoo on April 19, 2013 at 12:11pm

Daniel, a very helpful report on fruit producers! With the fruits you know do well, and your experimental fruits, you develop a paradise! Some things just are not worth the effort to get decent produce. Is it the birds or fruit insects that produce wormy cherries. I like your idea of keeping them pruned back. I gave up on cherries because I had to use unwelcome chemicals in my garden. By using a fine net, one could keep out the fruit fly. 

"The problem is most likely cherry fruit fly (CFF). CFF overwinters in the ground and emerges about the time that the cherries begin to turn from green to yellow (this depends on the variety, but in our area the fly usually emerges in late May. In order to control the insect you must spray the entire tree with a product that contains spinosad every 7 days from late May through harvest. You will need to check the label of insecticide at local garden stores in order to find an insecticide with this product. This product is made from a fungus and is very safe to humans."

Deschutes County Oregon Extension horticulture insect issues insects stone fruit fruit trees insect pests


(Rhagoletis indifferens {Curran}) and Its Management in the Pacific Northwest United States of America.

"Western Cherry Fruit Fly is native to North America, and has been found in the Pacific Northwest states since the 1940's. This pest lives only on cherry, has a single generation per season. It may emerge from the soil over an eight week period, with peak emergence occurring about the time of harvest. Though they are rarely found in commercial orchards, cherry fruit fly is the primary insect pest of sweet cherries in the region. Quarantine agreements between the region and other states or countries result in a zero tolerance for cherry fruit fly larvae in packed fruit."

Comment by Daniel W on April 19, 2013 at 9:25am

On cherries - I think it's a matter of local climate or microclimate.  I can't grow apricots at all - I've planted 3, and an aprium, and all died after the first fruit bearing year.  Peaches do lousy here due to peach leaf curl disease, which can be controlled by heroic efforts but I am not that heroic.  Cherries do very well here.  I keep the trees pruned back to under 8 feet tall.  I cover with a net to discourage birds.  No worms.  Which is better than I can say for apples here.

The easiest / most productive fruits so far for me are figs, cherries, and various berries.  Some plums do very well, and from the looks of the falling flowers, I'm hoping for a banner year for plums.  Grapes do well here.  I'm trying paw paws, jujubes, and persimmons, but the trees are too small to even call "trees", so we'll see a few years down the road.  Blackberries here are an invasive weed - brambles grow into an impenetrable thicket in a few years, 12 feet tall.  The berries are so tasty.  I'm leaving the thickets in the area around the beehives, they bloom  like crazy and honey bees love them.

Comment by Idaho Spud on April 19, 2013 at 7:56am

Dominic, I like sour fruit also.  I'm going to get another cutting from an excellent tasting (and looking) crab apple tree this spring.  I couldn't get the one from last season to root.  I'll try Sentient's method this year.

Sentient, nice trees & flowers.  The Bleeding Heart brought back some fond memories of living across town in my parent's house.  My mom had the hearts growing right by the front door.  It was a nice view to come home to.

Randall, I'm close to giving-up growing cherries also.  It's almost impossible to keep the fruit fly worms out of them, and they take-up too much room in this small yard.

Comment by Randall Smith on April 19, 2013 at 7:29am

Regarding Dominic's comment: My parents always had a cherry tree. Then so did I. But after it died (split in half), I decided I'd had enough of pitting and freezing cherries (and eating worms). Besides, one can only do so much with them, athough with vanilla yogurt, they're great.

Comment by Dominic Florio on April 18, 2013 at 8:47pm

When I was a kid, growing up in NY, we had a huge cherry tree in our yard, as big as an old oak, with a huge trunk.  They were sweet cherries. I used to eat them right off the tree, until I learned to open them first, because a number of them had worms.

But, I have always been a lover of sour fruit.  On my walks home from school, I knew of a sour cherry tree in two yards.  They both hung over the fence onto the sidewalk.  I would stop and eat some each time I passed them, although one house put up a sign warning that the tree had been sprayed for bugs.  I never believed them and ate from the tree anyway.  I too would have not done well in the garden of Eden.  LOL

Comment by Lillie on April 18, 2013 at 8:30pm

Yes, Dominic, when we are recycled, that is eternity.

Comment by A Former Member on April 18, 2013 at 8:25pm

Asian pears are great if you get a good one. The ones at the restaurant I used to work at were fantastic. The ones at the grocery store are like cardboard. 

Don't the birds eat all your cherries?


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