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Newsweek wants some readers...
SB, I agree about removing the clit. It seems unneccessary and obviously irreversible. I'd be angry too.
All this talk about clitorises and genitals and normal/natural reminds me of the spotted hyena. The females have very large external clitorisis so that they end up looking like males. That's normal for them:
Males in most hyena species are larger than females, though the spotted hyena is exceptional, as it is the female of the species that outweighs and dominates the male. Also, unlike other hyenas, the female spotted hyena's external genitalia closely resembles that of the male.
Here's a pic:
DG I agree it is telling that a schizophrenic person so clearly embodies the homophobic mindset. Almost gives me compassion for Michelle Bachmann. Almost.
Also I agree if there are valid medical reasons for a surgery, that needs to be considered. From my limited reading, most is not for that - removing a clitoris actually is FGM, even if it's an intersex child. I would be living a life of anger. Once it's gone, it's gone. I would not want to think of life without my boy-parts, even if they were unusual. A generous sized clitoris should not interfere with urination. Hypospadias can be a hygeine issue so may need correction in some way. My concern is if most of the surgeries are forced conformity to a rigid gender standard. It leads me to think psychological injuries may be greater than the cosmetic "benefit", and need to be respected.
SB, you're right that people should be able to decide when they get older, but in some of those cases the child may not be able to go to the bathroom correctly without some sort of preemptive surgery.
And you're right, society does do bad things to genitals. Think FGM.
Yes, that had to be the case. There's no way anyone can make those kinds of statements without being somewhat disjointed (if you will) in the brain. Still, it was a funny video. But her frequency at the city council explains why the crowd was so unfazed by her comments.
What I find most remarkable though is that so many people had difficulty distinguishing between the remarks of a "crazy person" and those of a conservative. I think that says a lot about the general population's impression of conservatives today.
So very Poe-esque.
The "Crazy Nebraska Lady" really was mentally ill.
VeganTiger, thank you for engaging this discussion. I think it is much better to have the people who are most affected by the topic, to describe your experience. My own thoughts, which are only partially informed, are-
People seem to expect a rigid conformity where nature is more diverse. Rather than forcing people into that conformity, we should let them decide.
Societies like to do bad things to genitals. What is done to intersex babies is far, far more than circumcision. Given the passion around discussions of circumcision, it's hard for me to accept that societies, parents, doctors can't just wait and let the individual decide what they want, as adults.
Even though people may mean well when they do genital surgery, is it really so bad to just let children grow up to become themselves? Why not let society become re-educated and learn that diversity does not make someone a "freak", but rather provides an alternative way of being?
People should just accept one another and understand that not everyone feels or thinks the same things, but there is a universality in being human and wanting to love and be loved, and feel passion and connection to others.
I would have to say yes, we do know for sure. Bob would grow up to be a transsexual whether he was born intergendered, completely male, or anything in-between. The problem is at the time of the hormone bath the baby gets. Whatever goes wrong is still unclear...
Thanks for that input.
I think most people would be open to experimenting with everyone if they were raised in an open society.
I'm all for sexual license. People can be as imaginative or as boring as they choose. It's up to them.
I was born intergendered/intersexed and would love to add to the discussion.
It is welcomed, I’m sure.
My wife and I just moved so I haven't been commenting much lately. Thanks for posting the video.
I went to Youtube and watched all three segments. It was nicely done, though I think the doctor was a bit too confident in his conclusions, but then again, people are that way when they are convinced they’re doing the right thing. Still, no one knows for sure what the right action is.
It was actually one of the first ones I saw to describe what I felt was wrong with me all along but didn't have the words to express it other than praying I would wake up from this nightmare one day as a boy. I remember crying a lot and then getting very, very angry. I studied all about transgender issues for the next two years finally finding out from my mom that I was operated on at birth and made into a girl. They are claiming to be stopping this practice and at least choosing male for children so surgery is not so difficult. It's easier to make a girl than a boy.
I think that seems like the sensible solution, but like I said, surely there are some kids who were intersexed and made into a specific gender who don’t have these feelings. Not so?
I certainly blame religion for trying to make a two gender society and doctors acting like gods to make sure.
Religion can be blamed for a lot of things, but in this case, I think human nature has more to do with it than anything else. I could certainly be wrong though.
... instead of being treated like trashy, sub-human, freaks.
That can be fun under the right circumstances. ; )
I know not everyone is happy calling it a birth defect, but it feels that way for me and seems easier to explain to others in that manner as well as getting insurance companies to cover it like any other birth defect would be.
Well, it seems like a reasonable label. If kidneys or hearts can be malfrormed, then why not genitals?
In one way I wish this had never happened to me...
That’s human. We often feel that way about things we cannot control or did not choose.
I'm just starting my bottom surgeries this month; finally!
What does that mean or entail? No pun intended. Are they reducing the size of your butt? Boy do I need that!
If anyone has questions, I'd be happy to answer them! :-)
Do you have a penis yet? And how does a constructed penis get erect? I’ve never known.
>>>Let me elaborate: Bob was an intersexed baby, and his parents >>>chose to make him a boy. As an adult Bob feels he should have >>>been a woman. But if Bob HAD NOT been intersexed, would he >>>have grown up as a transsexual anyhow? We can never know >>>for sure.
I would have to say yes, we do know for sure. Bob would grow up to be a transsexual whether he was born intergendered, completely male, or anything in-between. The problem is at the time of the hormone bath the baby gets. Whatever goes wrong is still unclear, but several causative factors have been identified such as contaminated water containing chemicals, drugs, etc., legal or illegal drugs the mother consumes during pregnancy, environmental factors such as radiation leaks, cell phone towers on apartment buildings, etc., etc., long list regarding these issues.
The one issue I DO question if society knows the answer to is would most people grow up homosexual or pansexual given the chance? It's hilarious when religious people say "just look at nature". What about it? The rest of the animals in the world have sex whenever they want, wherever they want, with whomever they want and I think that shows what mankind is capable of doing as well. Of course we have laws of "decency" regarding where we have sex, but personally, I think most people would be open to experimenting with everyone if they were raised in an open society.
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