When do we start asking, "When will Obama deliver?"

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Amy Obermeyer on June 11, 2009 at 8:55pm

I'm really glad you posted this. I have so many young, gay, liberal friends who believe that Obama is a metaphorical Moses leading gays to the promised land of equal rights, and as such, have become less vigilant since he has taken office.

While there have been some promising moves, such as discussion about immigration for domestic partners, Obama, to me, has been underwhelming during his first six months, give or take, in office. The gay community (and, in a lot of ways, the liberal, progressive community) seems to be satisfied thus far with lip service and "not Bush"ness, and frankly, its quite disappointing.

Permalink Reply by Dallas the Phallus on June 13, 2009 at 7:16pm

I think he has done a great job considering all that he was handed, and how much the right is constantly sticking out their foot in hopes he will trip.

Permalink Reply by Sentient Biped on June 11, 2009 at 10:27pm

Here is another article about the topic, from Yahoo News. Title "Will Obama be Truman on Gay Rights?"

white house web site on civil rights, here. Summary related to GLBTQ policies:

*supports the Employment Non-Discrimination Act.
*states that anti-discrimination employment laws should be expanded to include sexual orientation and gender identity.
*supports full civil unions.
*opposes constitutional ban on same-sex marriage.
*supports repealing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell "in a sensible way"
*supports adoption rights for all couples and individuals, regardless of their sexual orientation.

OK, so he talks the talk. carefully. We walked the walk for him. Will he do the same in return?

I think the honeymoon is starting to wilt. Finally time to pull the bumper sticker off my car. We have to be practical, and not lose the progress that's happened. We need to recognize that the right wing will exploit every possible crack in the armor. But we also need to keep our eyes open and not fool ourselves into thinking that a so-called supporter who does nothing is only slightly better than an ineffectual enemy.

Permalink Reply by Gecko, Seth...brother of Richie! on June 11, 2009 at 10:46pm

Lets stop and consider the damage Bill Clinton had to deal with right out of the starting gate. He never gained the full support of the military, in fact the military went father to the right because of Clintons first big project, Gays in the Military.
Obama is not going to make this same mistake. As of now we have don't ask don't tell. He has two wars to deal with, and needs the military's support. It does not help the Pres. to receive tepid applause from U.S. troops, looks bad. Give him time, and yes consider the alternative. Our society will reach the promise land. Be patient.

Permalink Reply by Jason Spicer on June 12, 2009 at 2:37am

I thought the ring finger being longer than the index finger was a sign of lycanthropy. But my grasp of things alchemical is tenuous, at best.

I also apologize for crashing the group, but I hope well-wishers get at least a day pass. I'm not sure how hard Obama will push for gay rights with all the other things going on at the moment, but Prop 8 notwithstanding there are a lot of positive signs across the country. Check out the graph here: http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/06/gay-marriage-state-by-state-.... It could be that our politicians will be following rather than leading on this issue, but at least society is moving in the right direction, and fairly rapidly, as these things go. Small comfort for those directly affected, I know. Still, given the nightmare of the last eight years, I'm inclined to give Obama the benefit of the doubt. Doesn't mean I don't write the White House with my views.

Permalink Reply by Dallas the Phallus on June 13, 2009 at 7:14pm

Well, he has had a lot on his plate since he entered office. I mean, just look at the mess in which Bush left us. I know all GLBT ppl are impatient and want to see more progress, but the fact remains that our issues will never be a top priority for anyone other than GLBT ppl. That means that we must keep up the fight, but also, I believe, be patient.

I think it is also important to understand the the President is not all-powerful. He must also earn favors, scratch backs, and negotiate support for and against policies with both Dems and Repubs. I have no doubt that a lot of conservatives are twisting his arm on gay rights by telling him they won't support other initiatives (like green jobs, for example), if he goes forward with a "gay agenda". That may not be right, but I think that that is how Washington works.

Also, there is a typical resistance to progressive change in America, and I have no doubt that if he pushes gay rights right now, the far right would be labeling him even more of a radical liberal than they do now.

I want equality as much as the next person, but I think from a strategic point of view, it's probably better to wait until he gets more time under his belt, and their are improvements in the economy and war efforts. That way he'll have even more support, I think.

Permalink Reply by Sentient Biped on June 13, 2009 at 7:43pm

OK, so go to this link and page down to Obama's picture. Which finger is longer? For that matter, page down to Bush & Reagan. Damn! But Obama's got them both beat in ring finger length. This "proves" the "Obama's gay" rumors, no? I just checked mine. The index finger is longer than the ring finger on both hands. My parents would have been so happy to know that!


SGecko,
I do understand your point, I really do. I wonder if racial integration in the military can give us a parallel? Here is some information on that issue:

*Integration raised the morale of African American soldiers and did not reduce that of white soldiers;
*Integration was favored by black soldiers and was not opposed by most white soldiers;
*Experience in integrated units increased white support for integration;
*Integration improved fighting effectiveness.
*An essential finding is that integration reduced racial tensions within the military.

also
"It was the Korean War that finally led to the desegregation of previously all-white combat units."

I know that my own military experience was an other era (late- and mostly post-Vietnam), when soldiers were still throwing rocks and spears (OK, I exaggerate) and definitely pre-Reagan, but during that time gays were actually accepted in the several units where I served. Hypocritically accepted, but everyone seemed to know who was what, and some asked, and some told, and that did not seem to make a difference in morale or discipline. Maybe I was in the only gay-accepting units in the Army at the time? Could be. And they WERE desperate for any warm bodies back then. Of course, it was used against people who didn't fit in, or by superior officers who had an agenda. Still, it's sad knowing that it all went backwards after that time.

Thinking about all of this, I removed the Obama sticker from my car yesterday. The election is long over, but I left it there with pride. I'm not feeling as proud at the moment.

Permalink Reply by Gecko, Seth...brother of Richie! on June 15, 2009 at 10:48pm

Yes I'm proud to say that within my Marine Co. There were a few homosexuals that didn't advertise but everyone knew and no one really cared. This of course was the early to mid-nineties.
I think we also have other pressing issues that I'm willing to cut him some slack. But not give him a complete pass. He has to eventually make good.

Permalink Reply by Manny Espinola on June 16, 2009 at 1:45pm

Obama was not Bush, not McCain, and good god in heaven not Palin. But he is definitely not for gay marriage. Not anti-gay enough? Check. Pro-gay? Do not check.

As I see it, Obama needs two more years to get America back on its feet. At the soonest. God knows the whole world can see that the restoration of America's buying power is the most urgent problem facing mercantile mankind today. Well, at least that's how things look like here in the third world. Maybe three years. Five at most. And THEN he'll turn to paying back his gay constituents. But I suspect he'll find one excuse after another not to, and if directly confronted he'll say gay marriage is not his fight but that we homosexuals should do it on our own and he'll cover our backs and best of luck to you guys. Gays. Would Hilary have done different?

Permalink Reply by Sentient Biped on June 17, 2009 at 2:43pm

Toss the dog a bone?

Yahoo news story here, white house extending some partner benefits, but not health insurance. Better than nothing. Still unequal.


Manny - "But I suspect he'll find one excuse after another not to, and if directly confronted he'll say gay marriage is not his fight but that we homosexuals should do it on our own and he'll cover our backs and best of luck to you guys." On my good days, I think he will follow through when more politically expedient. On my bad days, I think he knows: next election, when it's Obama / Biden vs. Palin / Dipshit, we'll still swallow our pride and vote Obama. Even if all he does is toss a crumb now and then and sputter platitudes. Second term might be politically expedient, especially if hell freezes over first.

Permalink Reply by Sentient Biped on June 17, 2009 at 9:57pm

John Aravosis writes in this editorial on Salon.com...

According to Aravosis, "67% of Americans now favor granting same-sex couples the right to marry or join in civil unions. 69% support letting openly gay men and lesbian women serve in our military, including a majority of Republicans (58%), conservatives (58%), and even churchgoers (60%)..." I don't know if these numbers are accurate but they support that Obama, rather than leading on this issue, is being pulled forward while digging in his heels.

Chris Weigant, writing in Huffington Post, here, adds some perspective. "Presidents get one year, basically, to get anything done." He concludes "As more and more groups start asking "If not now, when?" Obama is going to have to start actually delivering more of that change we can believe in, or else we're all going to stop believing... and more importantly (to the political classes) -- stop donating."

Once again, he was really good at talking the talk. It's time to do more than the "half-hearted shuffle" and start walking the walk.