Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by dr kellie on November 30, 2010 at 1:49pm

Well fuck, who can I kill now? How about we make a rule that it is not ok to kill people. That makes it so much simpler.

Permalink Reply by Sentient Biped on November 30, 2010 at 1:58pm

It's interesting that the list of people who you can't kill, includes lawyers.

All: God save your majesty!

Cade: I thank you, good people—there shall be no money; all shall eat and drink on my score, and I will apparel them all in one livery, that they may agree like brothers, and worship me their lord.

Dick: The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.

Cade: Nay, that I mean to do.

Henry The Sixth, Part 2 Act 4, scene 2, 71–78

To be fair, the lawyers who the UN says you cant kill are human rights lawyers, and I agree.

Actually, I like your idea better. It's not OK to kill people.

Permalink Reply by Jim DePaulo on December 1, 2010 at 5:41pm

The UN "sensitivity" to Muslim's dumb shit views is giving me a diminished confidence in the UN as a reasonable arbiter of human rights. The position of irrational religious dogma is badly misplaced in a world forum.

Permalink Reply by Sentient Biped on December 4, 2010 at 12:01am

I think the UN may have been somewhat useful at decreasing war, although by no means eliminating it. At least WWIII hasn't been fully engaged yet. Looking at the preamble of the UN Charter, is "reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women" really something that is promoted and supported by member states like USSR, China, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Israel, Texas.... (OK Im joking about Texas.)

The UN Charter states:

PREAMBLE
WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED
to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and
to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small, and
to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained, and
to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,
AND FOR THESE ENDS
to practice tolerance and live together in peace with one another as good neighbours, and
to unite our strength to maintain international peace and security, and
to ensure, by the acceptance of principles and the institution of methods, that armed force shall not be used, save in the common interest...

Permalink Reply by Geraldo Cienmarcos on December 8, 2010 at 10:42am

Comrades,

Don't throw out the baby bathwater. The United Nations coordinates MANY!! very good programs of economic development, local solutions to micro economics, sanitation, health care, protection of minorities, etc. And the UN adjudicates territorial disputes and regulation of the use of land, sea and sky for commerce and travel, peace and reconciliation. MANY of the programs the UN is involved in get very little if any publicity. But the UN is composed of nation states, and obviously humans.

The decision to pull the inclusion of sexual and gender orientation was wrong and unprincipled. But I can tell you from experience that in 1985 Amnesty International and other international human rights organizations didn't have the guts to use the inclusive language. Greece, for example was against the inclusion of the rights of gay people by Amnesty International. There has been a lot of progress. LGBT rights and advocacy organizations now have NGO status at the UN. That was almost unthinkable before 1975. Learn who they are. There are very offensive trade offs to keep international cooperation on so very many other issues. This is one of those unfortunate examples.

This has been a very slow process.

There will be other opportunities.

We shouldn't throw out the baby with the bath water.
The UN is comprised of hundreds of NGO's. Show your solidarity with other important issues of human rights and welfare, the right to health care, the right to labor organization and a living wage, etc. etc. And make you LGBT voices heard. NGO's are the place to start. But sincere interest and support for other issues is important. We are not just gay people. We are human beings who need sufficient food, health care, safe working conditions and shelter. Organize at the local lever. Get involved. And not just with gay issues. Be informed. Establish the credibility of your concern for human and social rights.

Read the basic social economic rights of the UN Declaration of Human Rights (Elenore Roosevelt was one of the authors).

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights
htt://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/ -

examples:

Article 22.

Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.

Article 23.

(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
(2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.
(3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.
(4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

Article 24.

Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.

Article 25.

(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

And these apply to cultural rights which should include LGBT people.

Article 26.

(2) Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.

Article 27.

(1) Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.

etc. etc. ...

Familiarize yourself with the UN process, structure and governance.
Learn the secular language of rights as spelled out in the UN's founding documents. In addition to the UN Declaration of the United Nations read the United Nations Charter.
http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/index.shtml

If you understand the governance of the UN you may wonder that anything positive is accomplished. And there are MANY UN programs and positive efforts that are successful but the popular media does not focus on those.

later,
Gary