Corporate supporters & opponents of Measure 71 in WA state (pro Domestic Partner) and Maine (marriage)

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by The Nerd on November 6, 2009 at 10:45pm

Why not extend domestic partnerships to everyone? I suppose the answer to that question is the same as the answer to this: why not extend marriage to everyone?

Permalink Reply by Sentient Biped on November 6, 2009 at 10:48pm

I agree, but it is what it is. The ballot measure itself was introduced by the homophobe groups, that's why it was so confusing. The homophobes fucked up this time. The domestic partner law was already in place, and probably written partly to reduce risk for being overturned in ballot measure. That's my wild guess.

Permalink Reply by Sentient Biped on November 6, 2009 at 10:56pm

Also this from the Measure 71 Email. Again, these sponsers were "pro-GLBTQ rights":
"Together we built a broad coalition of over 280 non-profit allies, labor unions and associations, 150 members of clergy, and 50 congregations and Faith organizations , small businesses and large employers such as Nike, Starbucks, Google, Microsoft, and Group Health, and newspapers across the state spoke eloquently in support of Referendum 71." supporters here as well

clergy and churches supporting equality here.


Anybody see any freethought or atheist groups?

Permalink Reply by Creature on November 7, 2009 at 4:00am

Are there really any active freethought or atheist groups up here? I keep looking and I can't find a single thing that has to do with either charity work or supporting human rights.

Permalink Reply by Jason Spicer on November 6, 2009 at 11:30pm

Daniel, I just pulled these numbers from http://vote.wa.gov/Elections/WEI/ (on the Measures tab):

Approved: 838,583 52.64 %
Rejected: 754,509 47.36 %
Total Votes: 1,593,092 100.00%

I don't think they were done counting in the totals you posted. Not sure what that means to the voter turnout calculation, but it's 50% more total votes on the measure than you showed, and the results broke slightly more in favor of Referendum 71, an 84,000-vote spread. Oddly, there were 50,000 more votes on Referendum 71 than on Initiative 1033.

I really don't like off-year elections. I don't think they should be allowed, actually. I realize every two years is less often to gauge the mood of the electorate, but turnout in off years is always really low, which skews the results (usually toward Republicans and their issues), and elections are expensive for governments, candidates, issue campaigns, and supporters. I can't think of anything that couldn't just wait a year to be on the following November's ballot. It would save money, energy, and increase interest and passion.

Permalink Reply by The Nerd on November 6, 2009 at 11:38pm

I understand your perspective on why off-year elections are somewhat wasteful. But I'm not entirely sure that the people who don't bother voting are doing so because they're unaware of the issues up for grabs. It's because they just don't want to vote. Me, I vote EVERY year. I voted this week on (no kidding) a public smoking ban and an upgrade to the emergency response system in the county. There was literally nothing else on the ballot. How trivial! But I voted, because I feel not to vote is to deny my shared humanity with my community. I think that not only do we need to focus on raising awareness of what is on the ballot, but we need to create an attitude where everyone in the United States cherishes their voting rights. ...but maybe I'm preaching to the choir here.

Permalink Reply by Jason Spicer on November 7, 2009 at 12:45am

Mm, sort of. I'm saying that off-year voters are tuned out because the ballot isn't full. If they saved up everything for the even-numbered years, the ballot would have more issues and candidates, drawing more voters to the polls. Once there, they'll vote on more of the ballot than the one or two things they're interested in. I don't vote that way--I always vote on every race I'm entitled to--but with fewer issues and fewer candidates, there's less buzz, and it just doesn't seem as important to a lot of people. It's like they don't want to bother unless they can vote in bulk. And since it's expensive to hold off-year elections, let's make voting more efficient for the government and for the voter.

Permalink Reply by Creature on November 7, 2009 at 3:58am

They're still counting in Washington. Each day, when I check out turn out, King County(Seattle) changes. The first night they had an estimated 115,000 ballots left, then 120,000ish, then down to 23,000 then tonight it was back up to 79,000.

I'm just glad that the Greater Seattle area has enough of a population to tell the smaller counties to stop trying to morph the rest of the state into the bible belt. (Yes, Eastern Washington fancies itself a sterotypical version of Texas. I'm not kidding, I grew up there.) I'd also like to mention that REf 71 barely made it onto the ballot, and that the signatures were gathered by people that were paid to lie, and hang out outside of churches by a single Washingtonian and his out of state cohorts. I really think Washington State needs to change some of its laws about voter intiatives.

Permalink Reply by Sentient Biped on November 7, 2009 at 9:47am

I'm glad that the count is higher than the ballotpedia report stated. Must be an earlier count, as mentioned.

I used to think that ballot measures were the most democratic possible system. In reality, a minority of people can get their rights trampled on by a small number of people who happen to be a pleurality of registered voters in a ballot where the majority of voters don't give a damn enough to vote. In my state, you mail in the ballot, or drop it in a drive up box with no waiting. Almost no one has an excuse not to vote, it's so easy. If someone doesn't vote, it means they don't care.

It's true that professional legislators and political executives can be equally stupid and bigoted, but they have more accountability and their actions can be reported and debated. Not perfect either, but it seems to me that it's better than the ballot measure.

On off years, the ballot measures can be more influenced by loonies and zealots, because they are the ones who are the most dedicated to vote.

I'm glad that there were so many people out to support GLBTQ people in Maine and Washington. Even though Maine lost, it was close. And Washington was close enough that if the supporters were not out there in force, we would have lost here too. My prediction was that we would lose. Im glad I was wrong. To anyone who might read this, thank you.

Permalink Reply by Sentient Biped on November 7, 2009 at 10:07am

I forgot to add, most Americans seem to support Civil Unions, but are against same sex marriage.

Pew research poll here and here. That doesn't necessarily mean that most Americans would vote for civil munions - the ballots get messed up with the advertising claims - but the issue of civil union is more pallatable. I think that the Washington legislature took a smart approach in aiming for civil union.

From Pew Research Forum

Permalink Reply by Jason Spicer on November 7, 2009 at 12:18pm

It's stupid, but people really get hung up on words. The more conservative/stupid a person is, the more they seem to think that words and other symbols have magical power and are intrinsically important, rather than simply being symbols for other things. Once civil unions have been around for a while and civilization hasn't fallen apart (well, more), it will be increasingly obvious that the laws will need to change to include the word "marriage", but until then, we have to mollify the magical thinkers. "OK, fine. It's not marriage. Happy?" But at least gay couples can get equal legal protection. It's not complete, but it's a big step, and I'm glad that Washington was the first to make this move on a popular vote.