MLK I admire very much. He gets my feet tapping, moral high ground, yes sir.
I also admire the Black Panthers.
A case in point was one person, let me call him P. P. is a much larger man than I.
There had been a meeting and some discussions. P. can be have like a reasonable person. Its just that when he gets on Born Again turf he becomes a jerk.
I walk in the room and he says, "Have you found God yet?"
Again, though I respect those who make a profession of literal atheism, I do not do this. I do not make any professions.
So I said to P., "I consider that to be an extremely rude thing to say." He responds with a disengenuous, "Oh sorry."
So I walk up to him and get within 4 inches of his face. "The only kind of person who would say something like that is an asshole." I continued in this vein for quite a while, until it was clear to all that I was trying to provoke him and that the only way I would stop would be if he became totally docile.
Oh, one other thing. Though it was handled face to face. I read later on his myspace page the guy wrote for others to read, "Okay, next time I'll keep my mouth shut. I'll let God do it."
So yes, he learned part of the lesson. But the other part no, in that he still thinks I needed some sort of inducement to be brought to God.
Over all though, I think he was taught a lesson and the exercise was constructive for everyone else in the room.
When dealing with door to door evangelists I only get beligerant and invade their person space when they are men larger than I. They may be large, but in such a situation I am prepared to do real harm to a much much greater extent than they, and they see that.
I also start the interaction, "These are homes. You are knocking on the doors of people's homes. Is there something wrong in your head that you don't respect people's homes? "
I do this as they are rapidly backwards running to the property line.
Concretized? Don't you mean cretinous?
Concretized, like reified, made concrete.
Chistianity, Atheism, and most anything else will lead to idoloatry if people believe they have a hold on absolute reality.
BO, you said, "There is some allowance for political protest being a right, and hence relaxation of property rights." What do you mean? A public park is not private property. It is public property. It is a place where the citizens have the "right of way". We can stand in the park and give a speech. There is little difference between political speech, and mad ramblings. There is not "some allowance" for political protest, nor for free expression of any sort. It is an absolute right, and we do not need the indulgence of the government's permission.
Becoming Other, do you have any strong feelings about the 2nd amendment? Do you ever carry a gun? It's a bit off subject, but I was just a little bit curious.
No I don't carry a gun and I don't think doing so would be a good idea.
Public Parks are certainly private property, its just that they are administered for a public purpose. Someone who breaks the rules can be cited, arrested, banished, or banished by court order. Where I live this is done all the time.
As there is a need to allow political protest and religious messages, such will usually be allowed. But if they bother other people, then they can be halted.
The person in question shouts a bible verse at people, and then follows up with a bunch of ad lib
He is allowed to shout bible verses, Whose private property is a city park? It's his, and yours, and mine. One can not be arrested for breaking any "rules", only for breaking the law. In order to defend our rights, we need to know what they are. We need to know that they are shared by everyone, even irritating people we disagree with.
In order to stem the tide of christian theocracy rising in this country, we need to lawfully protest and legally contest the establishment of christianity as this country's religion. Harassing lunatic preachers in city parks really will not help, BO.
City Park rules are always made into ordinances. They are submitted to the City Council for a vote. They carry fines and jail time. Otherwise they would be unenforceable.
Someone who is bothering people in the park will be asked to leave. If they continue a court order will be obtained. If they still continue they will end up in jail.
I know a man who is a long term homeless and extremely entertaining alcoholic. He has been in jail more than 20 times for violating the ordinance against drinking in the park.
Last time it was 23 days. It has been as long as 90 days. They also have a court order against him.
This preacher is not just talking to the birds and trees. He is preaching at people. Kicking him out of the park is no different than kicking him out of the laundrymat or Starbucks.
Has anyone ever laughed in his face, or said, "That is so SILLY," and then walked away after he shouts the buybull verse?
This particular person may be too far gone for it to have any effect, but I still think humor and ridicule can be powerful, legal, weapons. Maybe you could get a group of people to laugh at him all at once...
It's worth a try.
Again, it is a tuff battle. Not so much over the park, but over a community event.
I have bleated at him like a sheep, argued theology with him, and told him that he sounds like he's been drinking the New Wine again.
But others do like him. Some give him money.
Because of things I am involved in I need to maintain a Privacy Firewall, so I cannot go further in describing all of this.
Going back to where all this started, the intrusive and privacy disrespecting religious creeps, I think I am just going to tell them I have "responsibilities".
See anything specific I say, the BAC's ( Born Again Creeps ) will always interpret as repentance. If I said "affairs", "matters", or "issues", then they would take that as an invitation to try and bring me into the fold of penitents. The one spoke of "skeletons in the closet". Another BAC had said, "We all have things we regret."
I had thought of saying "campaigns" or "initiatives", but that sounds like these are gambits.
I had thought about saying "operations". This suggests military, or even organized crime. This is more accurate, as the objectives are always to inflict consequence. Actions to inflict consequence are mostly what I do day in and day out.
But instead I have decided upon "responsibilities".
So it will be, "Sorry Ma'am, but I keep my affairs private. Ma'am, I keep my affairs private, so if you've heard something other than that, it did not come from me. Ma'am, I don't spread gossip about people and I don't disrespect them, I wish you could do the same. Ma'am, I have ongoing responsibilities which require privacy."
No, cancel this. As I read this now, it still sounds like "responsibilities" means something I am ashamed of. This is how they will try to paint it. Once you are on Born Again turf, they try to make it like a "family". This is how they explain it. So privacy is trashed.
No, I want privacy, or really secrecy, to be interpreted as strategic, to be in order to have maximum impact, to better be able to vanquish foes. This is exactly how it is. They will try to paint it as shame, repentance, or fear. ( One such BAC was trying to arrange for me to live in another city, supposedly to hide from the mafia. )
So I will say that I am "responsible for initiatives which require operational secrecy in order to have maximum impact". This is 100% true.
Well, provoking religious creeps to the edge of violence stifled them. Just describing some of such scenarios here on this forum seems to have had the same stifling effect.
I am hoping that the above position statement will stifle the current BAC's on the ground. The position statement is supposed to be the last words they need hear from me.
As far as the obnoxious self appointed evangelist who ruins some park events, its not just him. I mean, I couldn't care less what idols people worship. If it was just him I would just laugh him off. But as always throughout all time, its about power. It is a turf battle. There are other people involved, other people behind him. There are other people who back him up.
So I am going to approach one of the leaders diplomatically and temperature test. Is he looking to make amends, or does he need to be taught a lesson? If it is the latter, then I will start a gentle campaign to get the preacher ejected from the park. This could result in termination of the entire event, though at least so far, this would not be my intent, but it may happen.
Becoming Other, the concerns you have, about fundamentalists having too much influence and power, are shared by lots of other people, too. Have you researched to find local "Freedom From Religion" type groups? Maybe you have a local atheist group nearby. Though you have said that you don't identify with any group, you are here. :-) That means you see some kinship with us.
Your passion and youthful energy might be even more effective backed by a like-minded group. It's hard working on a cause all alone. If you ask on the forum "Atheists Assemble", whether any of us live near you, you might be surprised!
I live in Florida, which is teetering toward theocracy. I felt like the only non-christian around. Then I found Atheists of Florida. What a relief! We are a very activist group. We have opposed the religious right about prayers in County Commission meetings and School Board meetings, about installing a giant stone carved with the ten commandments in front of the court house, about the Sheriff giving county jail property to christian churches, and about many other serious separation of church and state issues. Two of us have been arrested for being atheists. We have used law suits, public protests, and fun street theater in defense of our first amendment rights.
If you google Polk County, Florida and atheists or Atheists of Florida you will find our exploits posted on TV news, and web and print newspapers from Florida to California, and from Melbourne to London. Check out how we (you'll see me in the video) had a bit of street theater, on March 16th and 17th. After the Polk county sheriff, city mayor, and the head of the county school board, along with local pastors had a ceremony in which they poured holy anointing oil across the roads at the entrances to the county. They said a prayer for god to send his angels to inspect every car to find non-christians and other evil-doers and to either have them jailed or removed from Polk County. With worldwide publicity, we atheists went there and washed the holy oil away with un-holy water. I brought along some "Magic Foam", but we didn't need it. We announced to the world that all people, regardless of their beliefs, are welcome in Polk County, in Florida, and anywhere else in the U.S.A! Now doesn't that sound like more fun than trying to fight theocracy all alone? Let me know if you do find some friends nearby who you have not met yet. We atheists may be few, but we are e v e r y w h e r e ! Good luck, my friend!
Dogly, that is an outstanding recommendation. And thank you for the battles you have fought in Florida.
Myself I am not so interested in promoting atheism, as I am in keeping religion out of the public square and blocking the Born Again Movement.