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COUNTERING CHRISTIAN CLAIMS

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This group deals specifically with christian apologetics, especially books written by fundamentalist evangelicals which argue that christianity is provably correct and atheism is provably evil.

Members: 65
Latest Activity: Nov 4, 2012

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Suggested literature and web sites for discussion topics

Below is a list of Christian Apologetics which I propose we deal with in separate discussion forums. Please add other titles and web pages to the list as you discover them or have them recommended by the faithful. Then start a discussion forum for the item. Format for the discussion forum should be:
Item Name followed by:
1. Brief Synopsis
2. Summary of main arguments
3. Counter arguments
and/or links to web pages which contain these things.

LIST

McDowell, Josh. Evidence which demands a verdict.

Zacharias, Ravi. Can man live without god?

http://www.apologeticspress.org/ - Various

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Comment by Roy on February 11, 2012 at 7:34pm: That's good Luke, I like it. I think they just like to use gravity because it is invisible like their god. They don't intend to offer any more proof of god except to say that although something is invisible, it can still be real. Obviously this doesn't go far enough.

Comment by Luke on February 11, 2012 at 6:41pm: . is gravity described in their bible?

. they are mixing faith with provable concepts. We can test gravity, we can make calculations about the effects of gravity: how to break free from it and it's effects on objects. We can calculate terminal velocities by looking at the resistance of air. We can calculate gravitational effects via tides.

. visibility is not the only test for the existence of something. We don't know that the core of the earth is liquid, except that earth quakes aren't detected through the earths core indicating that it is molten.

. these are testable phenomena whereas faith isn't a testable. It fails tests (faith healing, intercessory prayer). The untestability of faith positions is a prerequisite.

. their argument starts with a major unstated premise: "[their] God exists", and worked their way back to god. It would be better if they went where the evidence took them: Gravity exists because it is testable.

. why do they like the scientific method when it suits them.

Comment by Roy on February 11, 2012 at 1:15pm: Can anyone help me with a response to the gravity argument?

“Why don’t we trust God?” Hebrews 11:1 says, “Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen.” Faith comes from hope being realized in substance according to the evidence. We don’t see gravity but we experience gravity all the time. We know the truth about gravity and come to trust it even though we do not see it. It could be said that we have a relationship with gravity. Our lives are touched by gravity everyday.

Comment by Moonbeam on March 5, 2009 at 7:31am: That logo looks good, Rosemary. I was trying to find something like that, but that's better than any I found (and also original.)

Comment by Casey Wollberg on February 28, 2009 at 11:44am: Former hard-core fundamentalist christian here. Countering christian claims is about all I did for about a year during my de-conversion process.