Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Terrence Lee Reed on January 1, 2011 at 2:03pm

Are you "White" enough?
What I hate is having to put down "Caucasian", though "White" is bad enough.
Having to classify myself as "White" on documents and IDs makes me think I am living in a fascist state, though I understand that it is useful for statistics I am not a fan of statistics, especially when they are used to make distinctions based solely on the color of one's skin.
Such distinctions are becoming increasingly irrelevant and rightfully so as people groups are no longer isolated due to geography. My son for example is Eurasian, my wife is Chinese. But Eurasian can be half British and half Indian.
Discrimination and prejudice is surely better now than at any time in our history, but we still have a long way to go.
I often have to check my own prejudice, though it is usually against "whites". I also have to check my prejudice against Christians, though they are often justified.
I don't like white chocolate, I prefer dark chocolate.

Permalink Reply by Sentient Biped on January 10, 2011 at 10:14pm

I agree about the chocolate.

Eurasian is an ineresting term.  For some reason I thought it applied to post-Soviet Russia.  Always learning.

Permalink Reply by Craigart14 on May 28, 2011 at 2:05pm

 

Put down "other."  We all are, anyway.  Personally, I like chocolate no matter what color it is, as long as it's got some sugar mixed in there.  (Eat a chunk of baker's chocolate sometime.)

 

I think I've hit on a metaphor . . . .

Permalink Reply by Yusuf Said on January 10, 2011 at 9:42am

I guess I am white. My father is Egyptian and my mother is Irish. Does that make me African American? My skin is white but I hold American and Egyptian passports and speak both languages. Do such simple classifications hold true anymore?

Permalink Reply by Sentient Biped on January 10, 2011 at 9:22pm

Joseph, it's a very interesting question and it illustrates the difficulty of defining race and ethnicity.  If you need a category, I would say bicultural, which avoids race completely.  I am no expert, so you can take that with a grain of salt.

 

There have been interesting situations where blond blue-eyed white skinned people from Rhodesia (ie, Zimbabwe) or South Africa or Mozambique moved to the US and attempted for various reasons to get "classified" as "African-American".  Such as this story.  However, the designation African American came from self-definition of the ethnic group in the US who has had severe discrminiation and racial inequity, those who were descended from African slaves who were brought to the US, were mixed with other Africans and with white Americans, historically denied opportunity and denied access to the same rights and priviliges of other Americans, and have somewhat of a shared cultural experience within the US.  As such, even Mr. Obama doesn't quite "fit" but as a man whose parents were African and white American, and who mostly grew up in the US, I think he has more of that identity than he could have of any other.

 

Using another category as an example, most people seem to think of "Asian" as someone with black hair, almond eyes, and olive complexion.  So what does a Chinese person have in common with a Sri Lankan, or what does a Thai person have in common with someone in Tajikistan?  The designation "Asian" is useless as well.

 

Personally, I don't think race has any use as a designation for what we expect from a person socially, in their skills, their attitudes, their habits....  but even so there is a real thing we call "racism" and people are dehumanized by it.  How something that doesn't exist is still so real to so many, and results in so many shared experiences by so many, is a conundrum.  It's hard to even have a common language to talk about it, but I think we need to try.

Permalink Reply by Monica S. on February 7, 2011 at 7:37pm

I have to agree with you there. One thing that burns my hide is the phrase "he/she is so white". Okay, how are they white? Because they speak proper english? Or maybe because they like mayo(I freaking love mayo but I'm weird).

Here is a question though: if every "white" person in the world had their dna and family tree mapped, would they still be considered white after the various ethnicities were listed? I had that discussion in high school with a student because I said I was "mixed" ethnicity. My parents were black(well, kinda..long story) but my family as a whole had literally slept with every ethnicity out there so the skin chart would go from a pale peachy color(my grandmother) to a dark chocolate color(my uncle Marvin). That being said, I told him "you might do well to know your family tree. There might be a bit of black in there." And he was very upset screaming "I'm white!". I calmed him down and asked him "What would be the problem if there was a black person in your family tree? You are aware of the fact that if your family owned slaves that the slave owner would sleep with the slaves right?"

I don't know if he ever spoke to me again....

But I do agree. Race really doesn't have a use except to make folks comfortable about putting others in boxes. Heck,it even makes someone feel better about themselves at times. I don't know how, as that the color of their skin was not something they created. It was literally genetics and chance.

Permalink Reply by Christopher Baughman on January 10, 2011 at 9:48pm

I fucking hate mayo.

Permalink Reply by thomas smith on April 17, 2011 at 4:42am

I agree that there is not a text book definination of white, but if you are black you know who and what is considered white in the majority of america.

It is a complex mixture of culture , perceived "class",skin color and physiognomy.

the easiest way to see the pop definiation of white is to view the popular media.

almost everything you see is a definition of white, even some of the folks with darker skin color.

most of the immigrant folks asian, hispanics, arab here who are not obviously african black learn real quick what the winnning combination is and adapt a lot of the white stuff.

the big reason of course is that white skin folks (males especially) at this time are powerfull so it is understandable. (note beautiful asian girls dating and marrying really 3 tier white guys!!

Permalink Reply by thomas smith on May 17, 2011 at 4:56am

yes, you have the essence of the idea, whata you may not know is that skin color confers subtle and not so subtle advantages vis a vis Black  folks especially.

these advantages are usually in the realm of personnal interactions  negotations.

and , depending on the circumstances perceived status.

the difficulty in explicating this to white guys especially is that they generally do not recognize it.

good example  is my work buddy; a great guy,  but still does not understand the significance of the history of ethenic  wealth difference. he says " i am not responsible, i never owned any slaves nor did my parents"

Permalink Reply by L.Hunter on May 31, 2011 at 4:08pm

To be white, at least in some parts of America, is to think, speak and act a certain way. I have been fortunate enough to raise my children in a pretty decent environment. My 13 yr old daughter was telling me how her mom's friend was trying to put her down by saying she acts so "white" and she could never survive in the ghetto. Even my daughter say the absurdity of her argument. She is glad that she has the ability to speak proper English and doesn't conform to social norms.

However until we are able to educate more people, many will continue to advance their ignorance of what having a good education, speech pattern dress actually mean.

Permalink Reply by thomas smith on June 12, 2011 at 11:08pm

I would like to point out to you that what you refer to as "proper english"  is a bit narrow minded.

the english that some  Americans speak is  , american english, the english spoken in other countries is different and the dialects we have here in america are recogonized as such. the misnomer of bad english is pejorative and incorrect.

If you visit the old shipping ports of England you will hear  dialect very similar to the black dialect here. why? because of the atlantic slave trade, english sailors were the first english speakers the kidnaped africans heard.

The criticism of your daughter may be unfair / untrue  but the core of that criticism has a historical truth; that is some black folks get it in their heads that mimicking the white population,  including hating black folks, is the way to advance and respectability in the white world

this may have been a wake up call so perhaps you might take a look at how your child understands the world