Being a conservative atheist is a case of being a double minority; it kind of puts one on the wrong side of pretty much everything.
I've found it difficult to find anyplace where I fit in; obviously churches are out, as are virtually any groups among the artsy crowd (tough, because I'm an artist) and most social groups. The closest thing I've found is the local Republican supporters, most of whom are wonderful people, though I do have to remember to watch my step there and not disparage religion lest I get the cold shoulder.
I find myself wishing for the days before the political parties reached out to the fringe movements on either side in an effort to curry favor and get votes. (The Democrats embraced radical racial and other minority groups, and the Republicans did the same with religious zealots.)
Being single, it also makes dating hell. The liberal women don't want anything to do with me, and the few conservatives I can find are usually repelled by my lack of religion.
Quite honestly, I find conservative religious people easier to take than liberal atheists. The conservatives, while they may disagree about religion, are at least nice about it & behave responsibly, whereas most of the liberals are just mean assholes who are downright abusive to anyone who doesn't share their views.
Anyone else feel this way or have similar experiences?
John, given that the terms "liberal" and "conservative" are so ill-defined, perhaps we should hesitate to try and exclude people based on such labels. As long as people behave themselves and are respectful of our views, why not let them watch, learn and perhaps understand our point of view? Who knows, we may fid that we have more in common than we thought.
I have a good friend who calls himself a "liberal" - he's anti-abortion, pro-guns, anti-immigrant and votes Republican. Labeling people sometimes leads to snap judgments that are inaccurate.
Can we not afford to be tolerant of others, when we would ask the same of them?
I know this board is labeled "Conservative Atheists", but isn't the very thrust of Atheism focused on free thinking? If everyone in the U.S. becomes insular, limiting debate, how will that lead us into a better tomorrow?
Me, I welcome all to a free, open, and honest discussion of the facts. I can only benefit from it.
Are you equating conservatism with insular thought and constriction of debate? If so, you should consider reexamining what being a conservative really means.
To my way of thinking, conservatism measures all proposals objectively and pits them against the natural rights of man. The ideas which most closely reflect the maintenance of those rights is the winning idea.
To have a standard against which you measure all ideas is decidedly illiberal and realistically wise. To dismiss ideas before measuring them is fascistic.
Isms, by definition, are exclusive. Conversely, atheism, at least in a society predominantly composed of the religious, is a strong indication of active skepticism and an open mind.
"conservatism measures all proposals objectively" . . . the only ism I know which can make such a claim would be rationalism. There is nothing inherent in any political movement which unfailingly incorporates rationalism into their platform. That does not make them 'irrational', but it also does not guarantee that open mindedness and skeptical reasoning remain core qualities within the movement.
All philosophy aside, however; the reality of American politics is rife with a distinct LACK of "measures all proposals objectively". Again I point to the total number of members of this very site - 27 who call themselves 'conservative atheists', against the masses reported daily by the media as being 'conservatives who demand their faith be a measure of a candidate'.
"A standard against which to measure all ideas" is another topic.
My viewpoint, as yours, is colored by our own perspectives. My version of conservatism does measure all proposals objectively. I acknowledge it is not always true of others holding similar leanings.
Most conservatives are theists. Most liberals are theists. Most political party members want their candidates to reflect their point of view. Ergo, both parties are ruled by majorities seeking theist candidates. Some may say it more openly than others. That openness or closure to reality does not make it any more or less real for either group.
The reportage of media and its value in a discussion of what is true and false is definitely a different topic.
That has not been my experience. The conservatives I know are fact based thinkers in the main. Most liberals I know have emotion based opinions without regard to actual consequence.
Example: The Great Society felt good. And in the process of feeling good, benevolent white folks destroyed the black family.
Similarly, when conservatives do not think, but emote, you get policies like the Patriot Act, which is, in large part, unconstitutional and dangerous, violating the search and seizure provisions.
So, we are all susceptible. My experiences are that conservatives are less so.
Can you explain how the Hebrew bible (old testament) is moral? I feel so strongly that the old testament is the very definition of immorality, that i am often quoted as saying that if jesus existed, he was sent to clean up the old testament god's mess. I never saw anyone more insecure, more whimsical, more vindictive, more partial and more capricious than the old testament god of the hebrews. Dont get me started.
And, i dont understand your statement on feminism. Should i be afraid of you as Tonya rightly said?
That pretty well says it, Michael.
Even here . . . we have only 25 members!
Wow. This topic touches close to home!
Conservatives suspect me of being a closet liberal because I'm an atheist. Liberals are suspicious of me because they see me as a libertarian/conservative.
I consider myself a confirmed atheist conservative despite the double rejection.
Personally, if I were single, I'd move to an island and leave both to destroy each other. But I'm not, and my Catholic wife now holds me at theological and emotional arms length.
In my analysis, crudely put, being an atheist conservative stinks.
I'm hoping this group and forum will be a safe haven for me and others like me.
Not surprisingly you have sunk to the levels indicative of losing the argument...addressing my personal life, about which you know little at best, and accusing me of arguing for arguments sake, which is a soft way of asking me to simply shut up. I was a Catholic when we were married, we still share the same values though she derives hers from Christianity and I derive mine from my own sense of morals and ethics.
Our only disagreement is about the role of God or lack thereof. Nice try.
Tonya, i like you. We seem to agree on many things. I was telling a friend recently who is trying to decide if he wants to become an atheist to be honest with his girlfriend. I told him he cannot afford to allow her marry him blind, as that would be deception at it's worst and if she is very religious, she would feel the vows meant nothing to him, not understanding that as an atheist, his words bind him more than the possibility of breaking a word to any god.
That said, i can do nothing about family and friends i acquired before i became an atheist. But all the relationships i have forged after, i am upfront about who i am and i let you make the choice if you wanna roll with me or not.
Because marriage is "too close to home", you cannot act theist all your life, and you cannot wake up one day and say to your spouse "look honey, i should have told you 20years ago, all the prayers we have prayed together for the past 10years have meant nothing to me, little wonder they weren't answered". While he/she looks on in horror. Nor would you allow your kids be raised religious. If you can stand that? You need to review your claim on atheism.