Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Michael on September 19, 2011 at 12:57am

John, given that the terms "liberal" and "conservative" are so ill-defined, perhaps we should hesitate to try and exclude people based on such labels.  As long as people behave themselves and are respectful of our views, why not let them watch, learn and perhaps understand our point of view?  Who knows, we may fid that we have more in common than we thought.

 

I have a good friend who calls himself a "liberal" - he's anti-abortion, pro-guns, anti-immigrant and votes Republican.  Labeling people sometimes leads to snap judgments that are inaccurate.

 

Can we not afford to be tolerant of others, when we would ask the same of them?

Permalink Reply by Smiley Courtney on October 12, 2011 at 7:38am

Really?

I know this board is labeled "Conservative Atheists", but isn't the very thrust of Atheism focused on free thinking? If everyone in the U.S. becomes insular, limiting debate, how will that lead us into a better tomorrow?

Me, I welcome all to a free, open, and honest discussion of the facts. I can only benefit from it.

Permalink Reply by Jim Rogers on October 30, 2011 at 11:01am

Are you equating conservatism with insular thought and constriction of debate? If so, you should consider reexamining what being a conservative really means.

 

To my way of thinking, conservatism measures all proposals objectively and pits them against the natural rights of man. The ideas which most closely reflect the maintenance of those rights is the winning idea.

 

To have a standard against which you measure all ideas is decidedly illiberal and realistically wise. To dismiss ideas before measuring them is fascistic.

Permalink Reply by Smiley Courtney on October 30, 2011 at 6:17pm

Isms, by definition, are exclusive. Conversely, atheism, at least in a society predominantly composed of the religious, is a strong indication of active skepticism and an open mind.  

 

"conservatism measures all proposals objectively" . . . the only ism I know which can make such a claim would be rationalism. There is nothing inherent in any political movement which unfailingly incorporates rationalism into their platform. That does not make them 'irrational', but it also does not guarantee that open mindedness and skeptical reasoning remain core qualities within the movement.

 

All philosophy aside, however; the reality of American politics is rife with a distinct LACK of "measures all proposals objectively". Again I point to the total number of members of this very site - 27 who call themselves 'conservative atheists', against the masses reported daily by the media as being 'conservatives who demand their faith be a measure of a candidate'.

 

"A standard against which to measure all ideas" is another topic.  

Permalink Reply by Jim Rogers on October 30, 2011 at 6:43pm

My viewpoint, as yours, is colored by our own perspectives. My version of conservatism does measure all proposals objectively. I acknowledge it is not always true of others holding similar leanings.

 

Most conservatives are theists. Most liberals are theists. Most political party members want their candidates to reflect their point of view. Ergo, both parties are ruled by majorities seeking theist candidates. Some may say it more openly than others. That openness or closure to reality does not make it any more or less real for either group.

 

The reportage of media and its value in a discussion of what is true and false is definitely a different topic.

Permalink Reply by Tonya Wynn on October 31, 2011 at 4:13pm

Jim, I don't think ANY group is really objective, except MAYBE Objectivists.  Most Conservatives, like followers of any group, follow thier leader(s) without considering issues objectively.  It just so happens that I agree more with the right than the left, but when I ask a Republican or Conservative to explain their stance on certain issues (not religion), they can't explain.  They haven't thought it out and thinking things out is what objectivity is all about.

Permalink Reply by Jim Rogers on October 31, 2011 at 6:33pm

That has not been my experience. The conservatives I know are fact based thinkers in the main. Most liberals I know have emotion based opinions without regard to actual consequence.

 

Example: The Great Society felt good. And in the process of feeling good, benevolent white folks destroyed the black family.

 

Similarly, when conservatives do not think, but emote, you get policies like the Patriot Act, which is, in large part, unconstitutional and dangerous, violating the search and seizure provisions.

 

So, we are all susceptible. My experiences are that conservatives are less so.

Permalink Reply by Tonya Wynn on May 31, 2011 at 11:54am

Keith, Being or pretending to be counter-cultural is often a knee-jerk reaction to all of the hypocricy ones  experiences and sees while growing up.  Excessive drinking and smoking pot is often a bit like burying one's head in the sand in order to not see what frightens you.  It can aslo, as you've said, be used to look 'cool', to fit in.  I think it is very wise of you to seek the other side of the story, to read about the conservative point of view.

Permalink Reply by fschmidt on July 15, 2011 at 12:38am

I recently joined Orthodox Judaism in order to have an escape from modern culture which disgusts me.  I consider Orthodox Judaism and Anabaptist Christianity to be the only 2 moral cultures left.  (I don't know enough about Islam to fully judge it.)  I am still an atheist and I told the rabbi that I am an atheist and he doesn't mind as long as I follow the Jewish law.  That is fine with me because I consider Jewish law far superior to liberal law.  I especially like the morality of the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament).

As for dating, find a wife from a non-feminist culture like I did.  Feminist culture ruins women.

Permalink Reply by Tonya Wynn on October 6, 2011 at 6:09pm

fschmidt, you scare me a tiny bit.  I hope you respect your wife, Jewish law or no.

Permalink Reply by Pearl on May 11, 2012 at 7:36am

Fschmidt

Can you explain how the Hebrew bible (old testament) is moral? I feel so strongly that the old testament is the very definition of immorality, that i am often quoted as saying that if jesus existed, he was sent to clean up the old testament god's mess. I never saw anyone more insecure, more whimsical, more vindictive, more partial and more capricious than the old testament god of the hebrews. Dont get me started.

And, i dont understand your statement on feminism. Should i be afraid of you as Tonya rightly said?

Permalink Reply by Tonya Wynn on May 29, 2012 at 4:04pm

Pearl, join the lot of us at Conservative Atheists on Facebook.  Most of us are more Libertarian there and there is MUCH more activity.  Fschmidt is thankfully not there!! The pig!

 

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