Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by John Jubinsky on May 15, 2011 at 8:04am

To a great extent I feel that way except I find it very difficult to accept even conservative theists because of their persistence and lack of rationality in attempting to force religion on me. I do agree that liberal Atheists can be even more intolerable. To me many of them are Atheists only to escape morality rather than for reasons of responsibility. They tend very much to not be Secular Humanists although for political reasons they do not admit it. Moreover, my experience has been that they infiltrate Humanist and conservative groups in order to undermine Humanist and conservative thought. In my opinion they are albatrosses around the neck of Atheism in that they make it easy for theists to scapegoat all Atheists by pointing to the immoral or amoral ones as representative of the Atheist movement.

Don't feel alone - I don't think you are. Even if you were it sounds to me like your head is on straight so I don't recommend that you compromise your beliefs as the result of sometimes feeling lonely in them. In such loneliness does character and emotional maturity grow most.

Permalink Reply by Michael on May 15, 2011 at 12:55pm

I'm able to accept the the conservative theists because, the ones I know are far more the 'conservative' than they are the 'theist'.  They are not religious activists, they just want to quietly believe what they want and not get persecuted for it. I may not agree with their personal beliefs, but I can certainly understand their desire for freedom.

 

I've never in my whole life met an actively hostile theist, but I've sure met plenty of outright hostile liberals. Including those who have threatened me regarding my conservative position - not with hell and damnation, but with being shot or having my house firebombed.  I agree with you, they are at best an embarrassment to the rest of the Atheist movement, as they make it easy to characterize the godless as being evil people. And they scare the piss out of me, as they so often are in political power.

 

I appreciate your final thought, but I think that at this point I have just about all the 'character' I can stand. ;-)

Permalink Reply by Elyse on June 30, 2011 at 9:06pm

Have you really actually come across someone who thinks that rape is natural?  I've put my toe in both liberal and conservative camps, and to be perfectly honest, I have never seen this actual idea, though of the two, conservatism seems closest to embracing that when people attempt to segregate men and women "for their own good."

Permalink Reply by Michael on September 19, 2011 at 12:47am

Huh?  I'm sorry, what does rape have to do with anything?  

 

No, I've never heard anyone state anything close to that.  But then, I've never met anyone (except for a few extreme Muslims) who advocates segregation of genders, either.

 

Permalink Reply by Michael on May 15, 2011 at 1:05pm

I agree on many counts.  I've noticed that many of the liberal groups seem actively anti-semitic, a position which to me seems contradictory to their stated goals of inclusiveness and non-discrimination.  Which in turn leads me to believe that they are being deceptive about other things, as well.

 

I suppose I have most in common with Libertarians, but (1) I can't get behind their official position on drugs, and (2) it wouldn't do me much good, anyway, since most liberals view Libertarians as simply Republicans in disguise, and treat them the same way.

 

A sad state of affairs, indeed.

Permalink Reply by James Healey on May 15, 2011 at 9:40pm

I feel much more accepted by conservatives than liberals, regardless of their religious influence, because I live my life in a way much more compatible with conservatism even though I prefer to call myself ethical than conservative. I can't call myself a conservative because I don't really care about tradition. I care about which promotes liberty, whether it be new or ancient. I also prefer a voluntarily moral society rather than a forced moral society, which is a contradiction. Hence, I refer to myself as a libertarian.

I certainly feel alone. I wish there was just one woman out there who felt the same way as I did on religion and politics so we could express our opinions together and feel like we've known each other our whole lives, because that is such a great feeling. Unfortunately, that will be hard to find.

Permalink Reply by Tonya Wynn on May 19, 2011 at 12:02pm

I've found Conservative religious people LESS accepting of me and liberals MORE accepting, especially because we discuss issues in details AND I'm closer to Libertarian than Conservative.  

I, too, get lonely, even for female friends who I can open up to. 

My family are all Conservative religious Christians and I feel too much judgement (preaching) from them, so rarely talk to any of them.  In some ways I've become quite a hermit.  I used to drink/party alot just to feel at ease, or kid myself that I liked the people that I was with.  But I gave it up nearly 10 years ago.  I just couldn't fool myself anymore.  Sometimes I go to a Freethought group, hoping to meet people.  They are all nice, but there's no one I feel really close to, at least in my age group.  There's an older man I feel drawn to, in a fatherly way...he wants me to meet his daughter.  But, I haven't met any Republicans or Conservatives and the few who call them selves Libertarian are very liberal in my eyes.

Permalink Reply by Chris Z on May 20, 2011 at 1:11pm

@John,  That was very well put, I couldn't agree with you more.  I by far get along with my conservative theist friends more than my liberal nontheist aquaintance-friends.  Many of these liberal friends appear to be default-liberals to borrow a term from Andrew Breitbart.  They are generally a-political with no incentive among their groupies to embrace conservative values.  As the day to day stories come and go, I find that all of their talking points (when pushed, and if they are up on the news) are liberal.  They buckle and are seemingly persuaded towards conservative comebacks.  Yet it goes no where.  By next weekend, they are back on track with the liberal programming.  They're on autopilot with the important issues, and yes, their opinions are primarily based on personal responsibility which ranges from moderate to the least responsible vantage points.

@Michael, @James

Conservative Nontheist women do exist.  I have met many.  They are harder to find that Conservative Nontheist men.  I have no idea why.  But I can assure you, they are out there.  You will very likely (but not necessarily) need to uproot from your family to meet, date, and marry one.  These are the circumstances of our day.  In my opinion, it's better to meet one of these wonderful (thoughtful) women and leave your family (if only but at a distance; we have phones and planes), than to never try and live alone.  Also, while there are many visible conservative nontheist women, many of these women can also be found among the spiritual-but-not-religious / politically "middle-of-the-road" crowd.  These women will likely require a longer vetting process, but you'll likely come to find that you've got nothing better going for you.  It's a lot of work, A LOT !!, but I become more proficient at weeding through this crowd day by day.

Permalink Reply by Keith on May 22, 2011 at 12:27pm

This is an interesting post and discussion.

 

I have to admit, I am a Liberal in this group (And obviously Atheist). So, it is interesting to read.

 

I don't agree with a lot of what this group is about. Why am I here then? It is interesting...to read discussions and sometimes participate to learn other people views in life. If you stay in your own little corner of the world, how do you learn anything? Expand horizons, or even learn to defend your thoughts and positions.

 

More on point with this post....I can somewhat relate. I would say I am attracted to Conservative girls. I feel that Liberal girls are immature. This is a generalization, however, they go on about thinking they are cool because it is the 'in thing' to be 'anti-establishment'. They smoke pot. (While I support legalization of pot, I find it rather pointless and immature) They go on about how proud they are not to want to get married, or have kids.

 

I may be Liberal and an Atheist, however, I have 'traditional values'. I want to get married one day, have kids, and all of this. Liberal girls don't want marriage or kids. I don't drink or smoke or do any kind of a drug, that is all Liberal girls do - in my personal experience anyway. This is why I feel I have more of a 'connection' with Conservative girls. However, the religion thing always gets in the way.

 

@ John Jubinsky - "To me many of them are Atheists only to escape morality rather than for reasons of responsibility."

 

I agree with this - to an extent. I am embarrassed sometimes to have these people be associated with Atheism. A lot do lack any sense of morality.

 

@ Julia Baumann - "We give up certain freedoms in nature to live within society. Why can't they live within the social contract?"

 

I agree with this statement whole-heartedly. I think this is why I find Liberal girls annoying with their 'anti-establishment' rants. And, their excessive smoking of pot, which I think they do it just becuase it is counter-culture. The 'cool thing'. Somewhat with John Jubinsky point too, I think this is also why they are 'Atheist' because they see it as 'anti-establishment'. The 'cool thing'. Not for any real conviction.

 

Permalink Reply by John Jubinsky on May 22, 2011 at 1:35pm

Hi Keith:

I don't think it is appropriate for you to be in the group if you are liberal as you say. Your being in the group as a liberal would be analogous to a theist being a member of Atheist Nexus. My understanding of the group is that it is a format for conservatives to exchange ideas with their own kind without the interaction being subject to and, as such, undermined by liberal thought. I will not stay in the group if it bills itself as being for conservatives while providing a forum for liberals to comment on the ideas that conservatives present in it. How about if you start a group called Liberal and Conservative Interaction. I will join it and, hopefully, many more will. Perhaps then you can have what you desire without requiring that others compromise what they desire. Also, there is a new group called Hanging With Friends that is acquiring a large membership. Perhaps you can find some liberal and conservative interaction in it through the ordinary conversation that it is meant to accommodate.

Permalink Reply by Keith on May 22, 2011 at 1:42pm

I am sorry you feel this way.

 

I am not here to cause any trouble. Never have, and did not now.

 

I will stay in this group - unless Chris wants to kick me out.

 

Permalink Reply by John Jubinsky on May 22, 2011 at 1:44pm

If a liberal is permitted in this group while it bills itself as being for conservatives I will not stay in it.

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