Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Susan Stanko on January 7, 2010 at 11:22am

My objection is moral. How can the government say that killing is wrong and then they do it?

Permalink Reply by Max Polun on January 7, 2010 at 12:25pm

The problem with confessed guilt is that often confessions are actually incorrect: shy of physical abuse the police are allowed to use just about any method to get a confession out of you, this often results in false confessions.

Permalink Reply by Aiden on January 7, 2010 at 1:48pm

How often does this practice result in false confessions? Are there any hard numbers to support this claim?

Permalink Reply by Max Polun on January 7, 2010 at 1:52pm

not the best study I've ever seen, and not sure what the rate would be for murders, but it seems to be pretty high in this study: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V9F-...

7.3% of those interrogated.

Permalink Reply by Aiden on January 7, 2010 at 2:17pm

7.3% is high? Also, this study isn't even relevant to police procedure in the United States (or the UK, where Euan posted this discussion from), as it's a "national study among Icelandic youth".

Permalink Reply by Max Polun on January 7, 2010 at 2:21pm

if 7.3% of confessions are false, I'd call that a lot. If every execution had a 7.3% chance of being for the wrong person... that's way too high a rate for me (of course there are many other complications)

But yeah, there are limits to the value of this study, it was just the first thing I could find. Find me something better and I'll look at it :-)

Permalink Reply by Aiden on January 7, 2010 at 2:49pm

There's a couple of problems with your statement here.

"If every execution had a 7.3% chance of being for the wrong person..."

Were all of these Icelandic youths interrogated on murder charges?
I can't tell because it costs USD$31.50 to register on the site this study is hosted on.

For the sake of this discussion, let's assume they were. Were these Icelandic youths at risk of being executed?
No. The last application of capital punishment in Iceland took place on January 12, 1830. In 1928 the death penalty was abolished entirely. Since the 1995 revision of the Icelandic constitution, the reintroduction of capital punishment is forbidden.

Therefore, any individual (in Iceland) falsely accused of murder would probably be more likely to confess as their life is not on the line.

Permalink Reply by Max Polun on January 7, 2010 at 3:34pm

That's pretty faulty reasoning: people don't falsely confess to a crime because they're thinking rationally, the penalties even excluding execution are pretty high. From what I've heard most false confessions are given because the person thinks either:
1. The whole interrogation will go away if they confess
2. They think they did it (I remember hearing about a boy who confessed to his sister's murder because the police told him they had proof and he believed that he must have blacked out or something and done it. I'll try and pull up a reference if I have time)

So I doubt the rates are significantly difference in iceland than elsewhere. The bigger problems are self reporting and what types of crimes committed, at least, it seems to me.

Anyways, I just got busy at work, so I'll have to sign off for now.

Permalink Reply by Robert on April 28, 2010 at 1:31pm

You should look at what Jefferson had to say about killing one innocent.
It IS better that a thousand guilty go free than to murder one innocent.
I will go further and say the State has no business murdering anyone.

Permalink Reply by Aiden on April 28, 2010 at 2:25pm

Jefferson also owned slaves and cheated on his wife. I find his morals suspect at best.

You should also clarify that "the State has no business murdering anyone", in your opinion (albeit misguided, in my opinion).

Permalink Reply by Max Polun on January 7, 2010 at 1:53pm

this is also interesting: http://www.justicedenied.org/issue/issue_27/69pct_innocent_confesse...

and people also don't know when a confession is false: http://www.williams.edu/Psychology/Faculty/Kassin/files/Kassin_Meis...

Permalink Reply by Aiden on January 7, 2010 at 2:27pm

Regarding the first link, that's just one study which seems to have little if any relevance to this discussion, as being falsely accused of and confessing to a murder or rape is quite a bit more severe than being falsely accused of causing a computer program to crash. One must weigh the consequences of confessing when being falsely accused. For example, if I were to be falsely accused of causing a computer program to crash, I might eventually confess simply to get the whole thing over with as the consequences of confessing to this relatively minor offense would never result in the termination of my life.

Regarding the second link, that's why we'd need a conviction based on DNA evidence and/or with no reasonable doubt as to the defendant's guilt before sentencing someone to be executed.

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