Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jonny Marko on June 5, 2012 at 11:00am

I would suggest becoming a case study of theirs, then you can see for yourself what exactly it is they do and what practices they stand behind.

I can't see why you are treating this like it's some sort of scandal. This person has been very openly skeptical about the school since their first time attending the meetup group and does not deserve to be called out in the manner you have. I have seen some of the case study work, the forms are incredibly extensive and contain little to no "woo" or other bullshit. The forms concern themselves primarily with diet and nutrition, correcting bowel movements, generally feeling better, etc.

Even if school as a whole is clouded in a lot of woo, there is some merit to the subject of nutrition. It is common knowledge that a proper diet combined with exercise is the largest contributing factor to feeling healthy and happy, and is (in most cases) the best way to deal with stress and anxiety related issues.

Regardless of the bullshit level here though, it seems wrong, to me, to go all-out on the offensive and single out one member of the meetup group and of Atheist Nexus without really meeting or getting to know them in person.

There is nothing wrong with criticizing the school for any of their bullshit teachings (and I would encourage you to keep doing so), but directing the entire thing at one individual without first asking for their own point of view is completely uncalled for. This person is not a scam artist or a witch doctor - just simply a skeptic/atheist with an open and skeptical interest in nutrition, and their constant friendly, laid back and positive attitude may even be testament to the lifestyle and diet choices they have been learning about.

Permalink Reply by Dan Listoen on June 5, 2012 at 7:36pm

First, thanks for your response. If the "person has been very openly skeptical about the school", why would they advertise the school with their profile picture? I'm not asking you to take my word about the school, they have a website and course descriptions. Please tell me how you know that advise for correcting bowel movements is better than for detoxification. Where do you stand on "the anatomy of an individual's spirit" or "the deep interworkings of body, mind and spirit". 

I'm sure the person is very nice, but how can a skeptical person advertise that school? I didn't need to know the smart meter people, and BTW can they join and put an advert with their profile picture? Also, I ran this by the person who is a case study before posting. Oh and having a skeptic advertise that school, might be considered a bit of a scandal.

Permalink Reply by Jonny Marko on June 5, 2012 at 10:08pm

There is no advertisement for the school, it's simply that their personal Facebook page shows that they studied there. It's pretty typical of anyone who has gone to any school for them to have it on their facebook profile. They have never once tried to promote the school, but instead have been critical and skeptical about the areas of the school that are a bit sketchy, to say the least. I really think a brief conversation about this needs to happen in person, as I honestly think there are some huge misunderstandings here.

Permalink Reply by Lorien on June 5, 2012 at 9:53pm

Being an atheist is only to do with lacking a belief in any gods. Being a skeptic does not necessarily make you an atheist. Is your meetup require being an atheist, skeptic and humanist?

Yes all that stuff is woo woo and that member would fail at being a real skeptic! They may want to take a crash course in skepticism.

Those schools are scams and are soaking them for money. And then their clients soak the dumb public for their money.

ALL BULLSHIT!

I'd say, go get that crap! Stamp out the woo! Try to enlighten him in the scams he is following. But then if he does change his ways, he will be out of a job. Oh well, shit happens.

Permalink Reply by Jonny Marko on June 5, 2012 at 10:17pm

You are probably right about a large number of people who attend that school, but I can say with all honesty that you're wrong about this one. I've known them for a while now and they have been on board 100% with everything on both the atheist and skeptic side of things, and openly critical of the ties to homeopathy/etc that the school has. I can't really say anymore as I can't speak for them or their reasons for studying there, and I have no argument against the criticism of the school itself as a whole. I just don't like to see someone singled out who frankly doesn't deserve it in the least.

Permalink Reply by Lorien on June 5, 2012 at 10:30pm

Anyone who goes to that school and practices what they teach are selling woo. It is just like getting indoctrinated into a religion and preaching it. All the stuff they teach is woo.

Yes, don't attack the person but do destroy their beliefs.

Permalink Reply by Jonny Marko on June 5, 2012 at 10:54pm

The title of this thread is a direct attack on the person. I am not disputing any opinion of the school or their teachings. What I am taking issue with is the judge of character of the specific individual being attacked. Dan is part of the same local meetup group but, to the best of my knowledge hasn't ever met them or had this discussion face to face, which I think will soon resolve the issue completely.

Dan I know you have only good intentions here, it's always great to question what others are doing in regards to this kind of thing. I just personally believe this is the type of conversation that is best saved for a meetup when all parties involved can easily discuss it in person.

Permalink Reply by Lorien on June 6, 2012 at 12:10pm

If they believe in the woo woo, then they are not skeptics. There is no evidence supporting their shit. (or most of it) and some of their crap is untestable too.

Permalink Reply by Dan Listoen on June 7, 2012 at 12:55pm

Thanks for the support. All I've been getting is hate mail from the group. I may have been wrong in the way I approached things but I don't think I was wrong in principle.

Permalink Reply by Dan Listoen on June 7, 2012 at 12:54pm

Hi Jonny, "Opinion: Abbotsford Atheists Have A Member Training At The Canadian School of Natural Nutrition". I see this as a true statement, not a "direct attack". I won't be coming back Jonny. How can I speak out against woo as a member of a group that has a member that supports it financially and by displaying the name of the woo school with his profile picture.

Someone actually insinuated that I propose shunning Rob. I can't recall that. I wouldn't have cared if he came to every meeting as long as he wasn't a member. From the ease of determining the type of school it is, I fail to see how a skeptic could miss it, still, mistakes can be made.

So, presumably he'll graduate, get some meaningless initials made up by the school owners, to put behind his name and use that to sell his services. I couldn't do it. As I've said before, how do they (I didn't know there was more than one) know what's woo and what's not (if any)?

"Dan I know you have only good intentions here" thanks for that anyway.

I'll say goodbye to you now, and when I get a letter to Aaron done and maybe post it on facebook explaining why I feel I can't remain in the group, then Dave can delete me from everything.

Permalink Reply by Ms.Belinda on August 20, 2012 at 7:00am

Homeopathy is sh!t, but if you don't believe it'll work, you don't get the benefit of even the placebo effect... 

I saw a few things that have scientific backing on there, so the course isn't 100% bogus. I'm new here, so I'm wondering what the problem is? Are you trying to stomp on this person's beliefs? Or his/her future client's beliefs? There are plenty of people who pursue education as a method of understanding the perspective of The Others. I think that if you're friends with this person, you should accept that they have their reasons, and either support them or leave it alone.