I’m a new memeber at Atheists Skeptics Humanists of Abbotsford sometimes shortened to Abbotsford Atheists. A short time ago I went on the facebook page to look at profile photos to try to put some names with faces of people I’ve met. I noticed a picture with a persons name, and “Canadian School of Natural Nutrition” beside it.
It raised a flag so I decided to check out the school despite the person in question being a member for months. It's all woo to me.
When I talked to another member he assured me everything was alright. He said the student is a nutritionist and something about being a case study as part of the training. The student/member happened to be working out of a three person office, that had a homeopath.
Please let me know if I’m being overly skeptical, but as I had already uncovered what I thought was damning information, I’d like to get some feedback/comments if you don’t mind.
Hear are some snippets from some courses http://csnn.ca/programs/rhn-program/rhn-courses/
(Skepdic.com is a good place to find information about some of the treatments.)
-fasting and detoxification
-orthomolecular practice in the pursuit of mental health
-physical diseases have related emotional, psychological and/or spiritual links
-the anatomy of the human energy system, the anatomy of an individual's spirit
-the deep interworkings of body, mind and spirit
-course provides an overview of the five kingdoms of life
-make nutritional recommendations based on his/her assessment of a client's pathologies
-how to conceive and raise a healthy child
-provides alternative health care recommendations (such as dietary, nutritional supplementation, and environmental detoxification),
-controversial issue of vaccinations (amongst others) is discussed
-course explores in detail the emotional, social, physical and spiritual factors
-major causes of pollution and the existing threats to both the Earth's and the human immune systems
-teaches the student methods of assessing nutritional literature for credibility, accuracy and political biases
Snippets from some more workshops and courses http://csnn.ca/programs/advanced-nutrition/an-courses/
-(3) alkalinizing and detoxification protocols, (4) the principles of psychoneuroimmunology
-the specialized cancer treatment program, the Gerson Therapy
-the intricate connection between nutritional deficiencies and mood disorders
-the link between mood and such things as amino acids, endorphins, neurotransmitters, hypoglycemia, allergies, thyroid function, adrenal function, and genetics
- how to differentiate between false moods and true emotions and explores the types of disorders for which “The Mood Cure” is and is not appropriate
-help students better determine suitable nutritional approaches to take with clients suffering illnesses such as depression, anxiety and bipolar disorder.
-designed to introduce holistic nutritionists to the principles of herbal medicine
- introduces the student to the Ayurvedic principles of health and nutrition
-4) the relationship between the environment, hormones, nutrition, psychospiritual health, immunity and breast cancer,
-introduction to the history and philosophy of Bach flower remedies
-second part introduces aromatherapy and the many therapeutic uses of essential oils
-as well as fun and inexpensive ways to create personal body and hair care products.
-from pesticides and power lines to the products of our own metabolisms, thoughts and emotions
-make detoxification a necessary commitment for health in the modern world
-a basic knowledge of the history and complementary practice of homeopathy
-address homeopathy specific to nutritional ailments and provide students with an overview of a limited number of remedies, tissue salts and oligo-elements that can be safely used in their own practices.
-topics that give the holistic nutritionist the basis to determine for themselves whether specific supplement brands are safe and effective
-(2) the science and effects of mindfulness, and; (3) mindful eating practices
The school is also listed on Quackwatch “I view the following with considerable distrust.” (http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/nonrecorg.html)
Tree part series and postscript (nutritionists in Canada incl. CSNN):
CSNN mentioned at http://winnipegskeptics.com/2011/11/15/potent-nonsense/
The person is apparently an atheist, but I don’t feel comfortable with someone that represents much of the thinking I’d like to see stamped out, If this stuff is junk science, as I believe, what would you do. If I'm wrong/crazy, or if there's good evidence to the contrary please elucidate me. Thanks.
I would suggest becoming a case study of theirs, then you can see for yourself what exactly it is they do and what practices they stand behind.
I can't see why you are treating this like it's some sort of scandal. This person has been very openly skeptical about the school since their first time attending the meetup group and does not deserve to be called out in the manner you have. I have seen some of the case study work, the forms are incredibly extensive and contain little to no "woo" or other bullshit. The forms concern themselves primarily with diet and nutrition, correcting bowel movements, generally feeling better, etc.
Even if school as a whole is clouded in a lot of woo, there is some merit to the subject of nutrition. It is common knowledge that a proper diet combined with exercise is the largest contributing factor to feeling healthy and happy, and is (in most cases) the best way to deal with stress and anxiety related issues.
Regardless of the bullshit level here though, it seems wrong, to me, to go all-out on the offensive and single out one member of the meetup group and of Atheist Nexus without really meeting or getting to know them in person.
There is nothing wrong with criticizing the school for any of their bullshit teachings (and I would encourage you to keep doing so), but directing the entire thing at one individual without first asking for their own point of view is completely uncalled for. This person is not a scam artist or a witch doctor - just simply a skeptic/atheist with an open and skeptical interest in nutrition, and their constant friendly, laid back and positive attitude may even be testament to the lifestyle and diet choices they have been learning about.
First, thanks for your response. If the "person has been very openly skeptical about the school", why would they advertise the school with their profile picture? I'm not asking you to take my word about the school, they have a website and course descriptions. Please tell me how you know that advise for correcting bowel movements is better than for detoxification. Where do you stand on "the anatomy of an individual's spirit" or "the deep interworkings of body, mind and spirit".
I'm sure the person is very nice, but how can a skeptical person advertise that school? I didn't need to know the smart meter people, and BTW can they join and put an advert with their profile picture? Also, I ran this by the person who is a case study before posting. Oh and having a skeptic advertise that school, might be considered a bit of a scandal.
There is no advertisement for the school, it's simply that their personal Facebook page shows that they studied there. It's pretty typical of anyone who has gone to any school for them to have it on their facebook profile. They have never once tried to promote the school, but instead have been critical and skeptical about the areas of the school that are a bit sketchy, to say the least. I really think a brief conversation about this needs to happen in person, as I honestly think there are some huge misunderstandings here.
Being an atheist is only to do with lacking a belief in any gods. Being a skeptic does not necessarily make you an atheist. Is your meetup require being an atheist, skeptic and humanist?
Yes all that stuff is woo woo and that member would fail at being a real skeptic! They may want to take a crash course in skepticism.
Those schools are scams and are soaking them for money. And then their clients soak the dumb public for their money.
I'd say, go get that crap! Stamp out the woo! Try to enlighten him in the scams he is following. But then if he does change his ways, he will be out of a job. Oh well, shit happens.
You are probably right about a large number of people who attend that school, but I can say with all honesty that you're wrong about this one. I've known them for a while now and they have been on board 100% with everything on both the atheist and skeptic side of things, and openly critical of the ties to homeopathy/etc that the school has. I can't really say anymore as I can't speak for them or their reasons for studying there, and I have no argument against the criticism of the school itself as a whole. I just don't like to see someone singled out who frankly doesn't deserve it in the least.
Anyone who goes to that school and practices what they teach are selling woo. It is just like getting indoctrinated into a religion and preaching it. All the stuff they teach is woo.
Yes, don't attack the person but do destroy their beliefs.
The title of this thread is a direct attack on the person. I am not disputing any opinion of the school or their teachings. What I am taking issue with is the judge of character of the specific individual being attacked. Dan is part of the same local meetup group but, to the best of my knowledge hasn't ever met them or had this discussion face to face, which I think will soon resolve the issue completely.
Dan I know you have only good intentions here, it's always great to question what others are doing in regards to this kind of thing. I just personally believe this is the type of conversation that is best saved for a meetup when all parties involved can easily discuss it in person.
If they believe in the woo woo, then they are not skeptics. There is no evidence supporting their shit. (or most of it) and some of their crap is untestable too.
Thanks for the support. All I've been getting is hate mail from the group. I may have been wrong in the way I approached things but I don't think I was wrong in principle.
Hi Jonny, "Opinion: Abbotsford Atheists Have A Member Training At The Canadian School of Natural Nutrition". I see this as a true statement, not a "direct attack". I won't be coming back Jonny. How can I speak out against woo as a member of a group that has a member that supports it financially and by displaying the name of the woo school with his profile picture.
Someone actually insinuated that I propose shunning Rob. I can't recall that. I wouldn't have cared if he came to every meeting as long as he wasn't a member. From the ease of determining the type of school it is, I fail to see how a skeptic could miss it, still, mistakes can be made.
So, presumably he'll graduate, get some meaningless initials made up by the school owners, to put behind his name and use that to sell his services. I couldn't do it. As I've said before, how do they (I didn't know there was more than one) know what's woo and what's not (if any)?
"Dan I know you have only good intentions here" thanks for that anyway.
I'll say goodbye to you now, and when I get a letter to Aaron done and maybe post it on facebook explaining why I feel I can't remain in the group, then Dave can delete me from everything.
Homeopathy is sh!t, but if you don't believe it'll work, you don't get the benefit of even the placebo effect...
I saw a few things that have scientific backing on there, so the course isn't 100% bogus. I'm new here, so I'm wondering what the problem is? Are you trying to stomp on this person's beliefs? Or his/her future client's beliefs? There are plenty of people who pursue education as a method of understanding the perspective of The Others. I think that if you're friends with this person, you should accept that they have their reasons, and either support them or leave it alone.