Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Wonderist on July 7, 2011 at 4:27pm

I don't think you're alone in your thoughts, Jessica. I have not read it, but have read several very positive reviews (here's one) of Sikivu Hutchinson's new book Moral Combat: Black Atheists, Gender Politics, and the Values Wars.

Hutchinson appears to be talking about a lot of the same topics you guys bring up in this thread.

I think the history makes it pretty clear that religion was used as part of the whole slavery process.

Permalink Reply by oracle on July 7, 2011 at 6:01pm

Religion played a huge role in pacifying the slaves and it was the convincer for anyone who questioned the morality of owning slaves. Many Black Americans refuse to recognize that the religion they practice and the god they worship was imposed upon their ancestors and their children for generations. It's a vicious cycle of superstitious dogma that to me is the most apparent remnants of slavery in america.

Permalink Reply by Maurisio Santiago on July 8, 2011 at 2:25pm

Very well said Oracle.  Christianity is a cancer that was planted centuries ago among Black slaves, and the tradition of christianity has been accepted in the Black community without question, regardless of its roots.

Permalink Reply by Maurisio Santiago on July 8, 2011 at 6:54am

Jessica, you're going to find quite a few people uncomfortable talking about the subject of slavery and religion.  People of other ethnic groups share the commonality of historic oppression by others, using religion as the tool of oppression and domination.  Be it the Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Native Americans and Europeans, religion has been used as a weapon of destruction/domination against them.  Everyone has a story to tell.

I am two generations removed from slavery.  My grandmother, and other elder members of my family, whose parents were slaves, did not share in those stories passed on to them.  It was a source of shame.  So today, you have an overwhelming majority in the black community that knows nothing of the African diaspora.  Yes, religion coupled with violence was a combination that allowed others to maintain control of their slaves, but in the same breath I think that it is very important to acknowledge the role of religion in getting our ancestors out of bondage.  If it were not for the Quakers, and their religious/moral convictions, the abolitionist movement would never have come about.  I remember Jim Crow and the segregated South, with the assortment of other indignities that came with it.  Although atheists were part of the civil rights movement, the movement was spearheaded by deeply religious christians, jews and muslims, some who gave their lives. 

 

As Christopher Hitchens says "Religion Ruins Everything!" and to a greater extent, he is totally correct.  But, as the descendant of North American slaves, I really want to express my gratitude to those religious people past and present, who stand up for human rights.  Jessica, the Jews continue to acknowledge the Holocaust with the saying "Never Again!"  The Armenians acknowledge their genocide, and we have the right and responsibility to acknowledge our history which includes slavery.  Never stop talking about it, regardless of what others think. 

Permalink Reply by Christopher Baughman on July 10, 2011 at 1:13pm

I don't think the problems will disappear even if religion dies in the Black community.  What they face is institutional bigotry ranging from a desperate lack of public education funds to employment.  I have a personal interest in keeping public education alive because Texas is seeking to gradually kill it.  Employment is a tougher nut to crack because you have to watch racism fade away slowly in American hiring practices through the efforts of government due to laws and lawsuits.  Problems are just compounded as you go down the line.  You could very well make the argument that the community still has residual scars from the days of slavery, but I don't think that argument will be self sustaining as time goes by.  Will slavery be the scapegoat for economic problems 100 years from now?  I surely hope not.  It's stupid tax policy that benefits rich neighborhoods and punishes poor neighborhoods.  It's a culture that seeks to replicate Ancient Rome's love of sports in spirit rather then seek to have just as many kids going to the library each day as the basketball court.  Yes, I do have an ax to grind about the prominence sports holds in our society versus the work of science.  And all of that is without discussing the institutional bigotry felons face when trying to seek employment.  Black felons more then likely face one of the worst chances at finding decent employment in the US.  We demand people change when setting them up for failure.  It's a recipe for madness, but given the shitty thought processes that seem to propagate government I'm not particularly surprised.  Other minority groups suffer under similar problems, just not as extreme in some cases.  You'll find examples of Mexicans & homosexuals being lynched throughout the US.  Many schools in neighborhoods that are predominately Mexican have similar drop out rates, high rates of teen pregnancy, and poorly educated students.  People still being religious when there is no data supporting their religion, and their ancestors suffering in the past under religious rule is just icing on the cake for the problems people face.

Permalink Reply by TNT666 on July 10, 2011 at 1:39pm

In our human lifespan, we know our parents and our grand-parents, and some of us our great-grand-parents. Harms experienced by any members of our families are felt by us. I spent 6 months in South Africa 9 years after the "end" of Apartheid and caucasians were constantly complaining about how 'coloured' (S.African term for all non Caucasians) people needed to just forget the past and move on. That is a ridiculous statement.

 

How long is 'the present'? WHEN is the past??? Is the past yesterday? Is the past last year?

 

I say the 'present' is any period of time that has an effect on any member of our contemporary family. The 'present' is three to four generations within a family. The 'present' is people we have known. Therefore the 'past' is times beyond 3-4 generations.

 

Slavery is barely reaching that time status. Official segregation was still around til the late sixties. These matters are still 'the present'. The people who perpetrated these crimes are still running around in complete freedom, these bigots are within our midsts. Just as First Nations people in Canada and Australia were fucked up the ass by religion in residential schools right into the seventies. This matter is still in the present. To expect people to "just get over it" is completely unreasonable.

 

So when you say 100 til people stop using these arguments... You're probably nearly right... but it's not arbitrary time... It is human time. Is there a difference between an alcoholic who's been dry for a week and one who's been dry for 30 years, hell yes :)

Until civilisation can demonstrate that bigotry has been gone for the long term, it means nothing to simply make a law and say: "things will get better, in the future".

 

Personally, I expect much more militancy than I see. Religion has been a major force is reducing militancy, to great benefit to the powers that be. And it is not surprising that the first black man to rise to power in the US is not from a slavery background, he was raised in a different culture. From this there is much to learn.

Permalink Reply by thomas smith on July 10, 2011 at 5:11pm

damn right you are a angry, black , intelligent,  militant. and as Duke Ellington said "love you madly"

we need more Black women like you!!

Permalink Reply by Joe Monroe on July 31, 2011 at 11:02pm

I will admit, when I was young I dated only light skin long haired black woman. I didn't like dred locs or short hair. Not until I acquired African centered thought process did I notice the problem.

 

Many brothers suffer from this illness and not until we let go of our indoctrination will open our eyes. Christianity is not the only indoctrination we as Africans world wide suffer from

Permalink Reply by Jameer Logan on August 8, 2011 at 11:07pm

It always fascinated me that black people blindly embrace the religion that enslaved them. It is like Stockholm Syndrome at its highest level. It is bad for Christianity in general, but it is mind blowing for black Christians. The ironic thing about this is that black people tend to be the most religious out of all the races. When telling black people about the evils of the religion of their former slave masters, and how it was used to be justify enslavement, cognitive dissonance comes into play.

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