Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Black Magick Woman on June 3, 2010 at 4:32pm

Didn't need Nation of Islam to tell me to not trust whitey!

Permalink Reply by Sarah Trachtenberg on June 4, 2010 at 11:08am

Yeah!

Permalink Reply by THE GRENADIAN FREETHINKER on June 4, 2010 at 6:52am

Of course, these things are not supported in the Bible and Qur’an. Remember for many many years Nation Of Islam (NOI) was not accepted as a "authentic" Islamic organization. It was shun by mainstream Islam until the death of its founder Elijah Muhammad. I was not part of the NOI, but as a black person from the Caribbean who was and still is interested in "Afro-centrism", I study their material of the NOI, and trust me, those “Afrocentric” organizations are laden with not just irrational concept but these concepts and beliefs are down right idiotic and comical. Therefore, it does not matter, it should not, if you are white, black, blue, or orange. You have that right to criticize and make fun of the NOI’s irrational beliefs. Indeed, you will be seen as a racist by those who are closed minded, and just as the Jews condemn those who points out their flaw as "anti-Semite, “Afrocentric” organizations operate the same way. Any time anyone, black or white, points out these groups’ irrationalities; you are either an Uncle Tom, or a racist. Go-ahead, make fun of the NOI and the many other “Afrocentric” movements.

Permalink Reply by Ralph Dumain on June 9, 2010 at 4:29am

I think some young woman wrote an autobiography about her life in the NOI, but I can't remember any details. In any case, NOI is a gutter religion if there ever was one, and as a fascist cult it can't be lumped in with traditional Islam or any other religion of long standing.

BTW, comedians were relevant to the civil rights movement, Dick Gregory for one. Unfortunately, the man has lost his mind (too much fasting), resorting to crank conspiracy theories and motherwit.

Permalink Reply by Sarah Trachtenberg on June 9, 2010 at 7:37pm

I think I know the book you're talking about, Little X, and I read it for a religious studies class in college. I recommend it, but I don't know if the author actually left NOI, let alone if she is an atheist/agnostic. I don't remember the book being all that critical of religion, but then again, I did read it a long time ago!
What's a gutter religion? Do you mean it prays on poor people (don't they all)?
Yeah, I thought of Dick Gregory, who really is funny, when I was thinking about comedians in progressive movements. I'm not saying that there weren't civil rights comedians, just that they don't appear to be as prominent to civil rights as comedians are to new atheism. Or so it looks, anywho.
Thanks, guys:)

Permalink Reply by Ralph Dumain on June 9, 2010 at 8:15pm

"Gutter religion" is the phrase Farrakhan used when defaming Jews. However barbaric the religions of antiquity may have been, they do not stem from the gutter. The NOI, on the other hand, does, and would be unthinkable without the gutter as its base.

Permalink Reply by Sarah Trachtenberg on June 16, 2010 at 11:54am

I meant to write "preys" on poor people. Slip of the tongue? A fitting one, though.

Permalink Reply by Prog Rock Girl on June 9, 2010 at 8:39pm

How many black Muslims actually subscribe to the NOI? And what do other Muslims think of it?

Permalink Reply by Ralph Dumain on June 9, 2010 at 8:52pm

If by black Muslims, you mean black people who are orthodox Muslims, not "black Muslims" (NOI), the answer would have been 0 prior to Elijah Muhammed's reform of his dad's religion in the mid'70s to cut out the racism and bring the religion closer to real Islam. Farrakhan rejected this reform and reconstituted the NOI. I've known several black Americans who are Muslims. In the late '70s, I knew a couple of Black Muslims (i.e. in the original organization) who were absent the racialist hostility formerly characteristic of the cult. I assume that orthodox Muslims of any stripe view the NOI as an aberration. (I'm using the term "orthodox" loosely to refer to all traditions prior to the formation of 20th century cults.)

Permalink Reply by Sarah Trachtenberg on June 10, 2010 at 10:13am

From what I've heard, "classic" Muslims (as in Coca Cola Classic) think Nation of Islam has nothing to do with "real" Islam and they think it's silly.

Permalink Reply by Ralph Dumain on June 10, 2010 at 10:21am

Incidentally, in a speech given here a couple of months ago, the speaker referred to all religions as "gutter religions". I have no qualms about mocking religion, but I find this frame of mind childish and rather typical of many ex-Christians, who think they are smart because they've outgrown religion but never learned anything about society or history. I call this phenomenon "redneck atheism", and in this regard, redneck atheists come in all colors.

Permalink Reply by Sarah Trachtenberg on June 11, 2010 at 9:42am

First, what does "gutter religion" mean? Also, is this the old saw about atheists being smug? (I expect many atheists are atheists because they actually are smart. I'm not saying that all religious people are stupid; I'm just saying that nearly all atheists are smart).
If so, what does smugness have to do with redneckism? I love Jeff Foxworthy, but I'm about as far away from redneck as a person can get!

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