Any ex-Nation of Islam members out there?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ralph Dumain on June 11, 2010 at 2:07pm

No, not all atheists are smart; it takes very little smarts to be an atheist; one can remain ignorant about just about everything else.

I'm using "redneck" here to indicate an attitude; a sense that one is rational because one has outfoxed religious indoctrination, while maintaining a misanthropic, anti-social, historically illiterate attitude about everything else.

You'll have to ask Farrakhan what he meant by "gutter religion"; presumably that indicated his attitude about Jews. But the Nation of Islam could never have built itself up without a heavy investment in the recruiting of the lumpenproletariat, i.e., in the gutter.

Permalink Reply by Ralph Dumain on June 11, 2010 at 7:26pm

Here's a sterling specimen of redneck atheism:

http://www.atheistnexus.org/group/nononsense/forum/topics/the-compl...

... this asshole take on Jews (conflated with ancient Hebrews & contemporary Israelis, of course) and Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims is typical of what you get when you scorn history and social science.

I must say I'm getting pretty damn sick of the one-trick-pony narrowness of the atheist subculture.

Permalink Reply by Robert H. on June 12, 2010 at 8:38am

Ralph,

Have you written any articles exposing the fallacies of this atheist subculture? If you haven't; could you provide some links? I don't know about anyone else but I would find this information quite useful.

Rob H.

Permalink Reply by Ralph Dumain on June 12, 2010 at 1:39pm

In general, see my blog:

Reason & Society

Begin with my articles on scientism:

http://reasonsociety.blogspot.com/search/label/scientism

See also:

What’s in a name? What’s in a movement?

There's more, but these are the best places to start.

Permalink Reply by Robert H. on June 13, 2010 at 8:50am

Thank you for those links Ralph but I need more. Specifically, I would like read any articles written by you or other researchers that you respect, that delve into the history of "African American" Christianity. I'm in the process of writing my first book and part of its foundation is questioning the legitimacy of respecting African American Christianity as a true religious tradition; its dubious origins, its grafted nature, its lack of collective introspection, etc.. My dad was a member of the N.O.I. so I'm familiar enough with their history and rhetoric to interrogate them off the planet.

I need solid reference material and you are, at least in my mind, one of the most qualified historians that are readily accessible. I believe that I can safely assume that you are quite busy with multiple projects...but if you can provide some source material, it would be greatly appreciated. Rob H.

Permalink Reply by Ralph Dumain on June 13, 2010 at 9:03am

I am no expert on this history. You might begin with:

Raboteau, Albert J. Slave Religion: The "Invisible Institution" in the Antebellum South. Updated ed. Oxford; New York: Oxford University Press, 2004.

Publisher's description:

Twenty-five years after its original publication, Slave Religion remains a classic in the study of African American history and religion. In a new chapter in this anniversary edition, author Albert J. Raboteau reflects upon the origins of the book, the reactions to it over the past twenty-five years, and how he would write it differently today. Using a variety of first and second-hand sources-- some objective, some personal, all riveting-- Raboteau analyzes the transformation of the African religions into evangelical Christianity. He presents the narratives of the slaves themselves, as well as missionary reports, travel accounts, folklore, black autobiographies, and the journals of white observers to describe the day-to-day religious life in the slave communities. Slave Religion is a must-read for anyone wanting a full picture of this "invisible institution."

Permalink Reply by Ralph Dumain on June 13, 2010 at 9:07am

The Church in the Southern Black Community, 1780-1925 [electronic resource] / University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Washington, D.C.: Library of Congress, 2001.

Links:

http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.gdc/collgdc.gc000013

http://docsouth.unc.edu/church/index.html

Permalink Reply by Ralph Dumain on June 13, 2010 at 9:17am

Two more books (re)published in this century. Sources given so far refer to slavery in the South.

Earl, Riggins R, Jr. Dark Symbols, Obscure Signs: God, Self, and Community in the Slave Mind; with a new introduction. Knoxville: University of Tennessee Press, 2003.

Irons, Charles F. The Origins of Proslavery Christianity: White and Black Evangelicals in Colonial and Antebellum Virginia. Chapel Hill: University of North Carolina Press, 2008.

Permalink Reply by Robert H. on June 13, 2010 at 11:28am

Again, greatly apppreciated Ralph!

Rob H.

Permalink Reply by Sarah Trachtenberg on June 15, 2010 at 3:59pm

Does all this mean that I'm a redneck? I mean, I like to think I try to educate myself about such matters. I don't *feel* like a redneck.

Permalink Reply by Ralph Dumain on June 15, 2010 at 5:40pm

I don't recall accusing you of anything. If you haven't encountered the phenomenon I'm aiming at, you will, and you won't have to venture far to find it.

Permalink Reply by Sarah Trachtenberg on June 16, 2010 at 11:53am

I don't mean accusing, exactly. I'm just confused about how this tangent came up and what it implied about me.
What is the phenomenon? Atheists who think they know what they're talking about when they don't? I don't think I've encountered this... yet.

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