Both my wife and I are both ethical Vegans, We both find in disturbing how few people within the atheist community don't see the dietary indoctrination that surrounds us in the same way that they do Religious dogma. In some ways the two are often very related.....

 

Discussion please:

 

cheers

 

Vegan Ape

Tags: animal, australia, ethics, nsw, vegan, vegetarian

Views: 840

Replies to This Discussion

I would expect no less, it was just my initial late night knee jerk impression. But i will look further, Don't get me wrong I am a big advocate of probiotics. cheers

VeganApe

forget about all the rest of her stuff - her remedy for the problem - what I'm interested in is her theory on why the puss in is in the veins....  why would it simply just build up in the body?  Her theory to may laypersons ears - sounds very plausible - compared to what - to it just sticks to the sides because we are eating too much cholesterol in foods.....  it doesn't stack up to the figures - African tribes eat just fermented milk with blood and there rates of heart disease was very low......  I think heart disease is way more to do with industrialised foods, processed foods and modern lifestyles - America is no. one in heart disease...  whereas other countries have much less....

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_hea_dis_dea-health-heart-dise...

really interesting - Japan - they are slim - they eat what?  rice and raw fish.....

the french - they eat heaps of raw dairy foods, just about raw meat - in France it's almost an offence to feed your children a vegetarian diet - never mind vegan....  it's considered child abuse if you don't feed your children meat.... they don't put fluoride in their water - they use lasers or something.... their teeth are terrible......   perhaps all the acidity from the meat taking out the calcium ?

I don't know - what can you extrapolate.... ?

the heart attack death figures also relate to the medical system - because many more may have the heart attack, but not die due to good health care or education on how to keep them alive etc....  so it doesn't necessarily reflect the level of heart disease - just those dying from it... :)

Oh and another thing - the people I was looking after wasn't in a nursing home, it was a place where they could live, but get in home help more easily - so many of them just were normal, but some of them needed extra help with showering etc.... and others needed higher care - but they all had their own flat in the complex....  and they paid a rent to have carers on hand - they also had an eating place so they didn't have to cook for themselves - it was for wealthy old people.

Oh and the other thing was that most people who are overweight die in their 50's and 60's, it's the thin ones that live till their 80's and 90's - and so those who are dying from heart attacks in their 80's and 90's are generally thin....  not fat.

veganape - I agree this is the dominant theory on heart disease.... that high fat and protein and low carb intake results in clogged arteries....  and also that you can just as well get heart disease fat or thin.....    I'm still interested in the whole pathogens causing heart disease theory though - and the reason that is given for the high pathogens in the body is a lack of fermented foods - and possibly also too much feeding of them with over eating - of both meat and carbs - and not enough vitamin and enzyme rich raw vegetables.....

One pathogen I had understand there is supportive science for is the bacteria involved in gum disease. This bacteria is linked to heart disease from what I have seen. Might be worth having a look for some info on that if you are interested..

yes I've heard that too - one dentist recommended taking out all your root canals and implants due to harbouring bacteria that travelled in the blood system to the heart to create problems....

I have even heard statistics that in older people with dentures average survival rates are a few years longer??

Interesting......  yes so the basic ideas is don't have unhealthy teeth that harbour infection - best to have them taken out....  although this is short of evidence - as I can't remember where I read it.....  oh wait I think I can - I'll have a look....

This wasn't the exact article - but it was from this site....  which you may consider quack in generally - but there could be some specific writers who are valid or material that is valid... :) 

http://www.westonaprice.org/dentistry/root-canal-dangers

http://www.westonaprice.org/nutrition-greats/weston-price

Oral Health and Stroke

Recent research has been focusing on the association of vascular disease with periodontitis rather than with root canals, but nevertheless has been confirming the general principle observed by Price, namely that oral pathogens can cause systemic, degenerative diseases. Oral pathogens and immune cells specific to them inhabit arterial plaque. A number of studies have associated periodontitis with the severity of atherosclerosis and the incidence of heart disease and stroke. The pooled results of these studies conducted up to the year 2004 associate the presence of periodontitis with a 50 percent increase in the risk of ischemic stroke. Several studies have associated the presence of severe periodontitis with a nearly three-fold increase in risk of total stroke or fatal ischemic stroke. Among those strokes that are preceded by a fever, dental infection is associated with a nine-fold increase in risk.46

Preliminary evidence suggests that periodontitis increases the systemic marker of inflammation known as C-reactive protein as well as total and LDL-cholesterol. Intensive treatment of periodontitis using antibiotics decreases these levels when compared to standard treatment without antibiotics.47 Although it is possible that LDL and total cholesterol may be an important part of the body’s response to inflammation, it is also possible that their increase is largely coincident with the increase in mevalonate production used for other purposes, such as the activation of Rho, an important mediator of the stress response (see sidebar). 

Oral pathogens may cause immune cells specific to them to directly adhere to the blood vessel lining and initiate atherosclerosis. By increasing the activation of Rho, however, we should also expect systemic inflammation to interfere with nitric oxide functioning and thereby contribute to atherosclerosis by a second mechanism.

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