Atheist Revolution

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Comment by Richard C Brown on January 18, 2012 at 6:43am

I read Atheist Revolution.I like it so I am bringing this discussion into 2012.Happy New Year!!!!

Comment by Patricia on May 22, 2011 at 7:49pm

Disappointing......isn't it?

Comment by Rick on May 22, 2011 at 5:22pm

  I’m really ticked off now…..BIG TIME!

Last night I expected all the “rapture”  yahoo’s to be gone.  All I expected to find was a bunch

of clothes, empty house, apartments, mobile homes and the like.  Cars just left on the street with the keys in them.

I had planned to go out looting. I was gonna clean up with the cash they left behind, their valuables, jewels, precious metals, silverware, electronics and the such.

BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I even had a SHOPPING LIST!

And I had a list of things my friends wanted…..  Of course, there were some prescription meds certain friends wanted me to get for them…. And some things that weren’t prescription as well….

It only goes to show you, you can’t trust these “rapture” clowns….

Sigh……..back to clipping coupons….

Comment by Joan Denoo on July 11, 2010 at 1:57pm

Thanks for the clarification and more information. I understand what you mean and agree 100%. I attended several meetings for parents of an alcoholic, Al Anon, and found it impossible to support; references to a higher power didn't fit with my experiences in real life problems; dependence on the group troubled me; the empty rhetoric made no sense. What I finally came to was telling my son to get sober or get out of my life. I don't need drama to find meaning and he is an adult and needs to find his own path. Thankfully, he did sober up. Then I had to deal with a "dry drunk". That was no fun either and I set boundaries as before and he changed his behavior and language patterns. So far, so good. Thanks for taking the time to clarify your position. I like the idea of your use of the eugenics of discourse as a meme. You made me think.

Comment by Bill Flowers on July 11, 2010 at 12:38pm

"Eugenics is the study and practice of selective breeding applied to humans, with the aim of improving the species. In a historical and broader sense, eugenics can also be a study of "improving human genetic qualities."

Yes, and as memes act (in many ways) analogous to genes, my use of eugenics for what happens in AA meetings was deliberate.

As far as sterotyping, I suppose that depends on what you mean by a culture of addiction. In some ways all addicts must be "part" of a "culture" of addiction in that they need access to that to which they are addicted. From what I observed, meetings in economically depressed areas tended to be filled what I might call a culture of addiction, where fear, poverty, depression and mental illness contribute to the problems of addictions. The majority of meetings I attended were in richer areas of towns, filled mostly with middle-class addicts who had, at some point, ceased to be functioning alcoholics prior to joining the rooms.

Ultimately, in my own anecdotal-based opinion, I think that while culture can provide overwhelming cues bolstering addictive behavior (just seeing a crack pipe prods a user's desire or, in a more common addiction, drinking coffee lights up the desire for a cigarette). Removing cultural cues certainly helps defeat addictive behavior, particularly if that behavior isn't primarily a physically based addiction.

You see, I'm not denying that the sequence of changing the language, thought patterns and behavior is what many (most?) addicts need. (Although I'm not sure how much the addictive part of a personality is changed, cigarettes and caffeine being virtually de rigueur in the rooms at the time I observed them.)

I am saying that, however beneficial, such adherence to a single mode of discourse is akin to faith for me. Thinking about a problem in only one way just isn't something I can do, my mind watches itself all the time. Make amends to all I've harmed? Most of them deserved what harm I did to them, and that harm was deliberate. Turn my will over to someone/something besides my own consciousness? I just can't see that. Continue to take personal inventory and admit it when I am wrong? I'm behind that one all the way. But that pretty much exhausts the rules that don't touch on articles of faith.

My only broken addiction was smoking, and I didn't break it by saying I was powerless and that smoking controlled my life, I broke it by finding something that I found more pleasurable: dating the woman who is now my wife. Which is perhaps simply trading one addiction for another, like an AA member with coffee and cigarettes. Perhaps the best we can do is redirect addictions. If so, mine can't be redirected by blind faith. Hopefully the link Rick provided aids those with addictions without insistence on a single, faith based mode of discourse.

Comment by Joan Denoo on July 11, 2010 at 10:49am

"eugenics of discourse "

"controlling how people talk about addiction in order

to influence how people think about addiction in order

to limit how people act.

Bill, I need some clarification. If a person is addicted to a substance, he/she usually is part of a culture of addiction. Or am I sterotyping here? Changing the culture, changing the language and changing the behavior seem to me to be what one needs. There must have been something else I am not seeing. Can you clarify? I like your comment because it got me to thinking about what changes addiction.

"Eugenics is the study and practice of selective breeding applied to humans, with the aim of improving the species. In a historical and broader sense, eugenics can also be a study of "improving human genetic qualities."

Comment by Bill Flowers on July 11, 2010 at 9:49am

I went with a former boss of mine to AA 2-3 times a week one semester, and the eugenics of discourse was amazing. The overtly religious angle wasn't that bad, but the entire operation is predicated on controlling how people talk about addiction in order to influence how people think about addiction in order to limit how people act. Discourse that doesn't fit the model is strongly discouraged through peer pressure and group disapproval.

Creating an atmosphere where what you say, think and do is controlled by punishing free discourse may help some with addiction, but that type of control is basically religious. I was rather glad I wasn't an alcoholic or drug user, I don't think such a system would have any influence on my behavior.

Comment by vjack on July 11, 2010 at 7:52am

Thanks, Rick. That is good info.

Comment by TinaFCD on July 11, 2010 at 7:32am

That's how my mom got religion. AA.

Comment by Rick on July 11, 2010 at 4:16am

I came across this and thought I would share it with everyone.
I have had family and friends who have had personal problems.
It is hard for them, their family and their friends.
Thought this might help those who don't want a "religious" answer.

http://www.sossobriety.org/

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