Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Nerdlass on February 19, 2012 at 11:30pm

Establishment clause. I do not think it means what they think it means. 9.9 If I pinch the bridge of my nose any more, I'll be able to see myself cross my eyes over this. :P

Permalink Reply by Sentient Biped on February 19, 2012 at 11:56pm

New York Times article from September 12, 1938

I can't say that I fall for the christian aspects of this sermon, but much of it could be written today, and the first few lines are some of the most sage words I have read on this topic.  Then there is Sinclair Lewis,

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." 1935, "It Can't Happen Here."

Permalink Reply by Chris Dodds on February 21, 2012 at 6:10pm

Interesting you should say that, because I think I saw a few pictures Santorum, Romney, and Gingrich wrapped in flags and carrying crosses.

Permalink Reply by Sentient Biped on February 21, 2012 at 9:34pm

this is the closest i could find in a quick search. photoshopped? I don't know.

santorum wrapped+in+flag pics on Sodahead

Permalink Reply by Ted Gresham on February 20, 2012 at 6:56am

Someone on my Facebook yesterday morning posted on these nutcases.  I wrote a letter to send to our paper, the Lufkin Daily News, and sent it to them.  Considering their pansy ass publishing policy it may not be published.  But here it is for anyone else who might want to send it to another paper.  You might want to change the email address to yours or a local group.

Letter:

The attempt by certain Christians to destroy the Constitutionally guaranteed division between church and state; euphemistically: “god and country,” Is wrong. It contradicts freedom and the Constitution. Americans have the right to believe any religion they choose. But every American ALSO has a right to follow no religion whatsoever. No person or group has a right to force their religion upon another person who believes differently or not at all. No person or group has the right to insert themselves into government and use the power and platform of government to promote and promulgate their own form of religion.
It is a great misconception that The United States was founded on “Judeo-Christian” principals. The men who founded this country, wrote the Constitution, and led it in the beginning were certainly not Christian zealots bent upon creating a so-called Christian country. Many were Deists, not Theists, and many, including Thomas Jefferson, had no regard for anything supernatural. Their use of God in language was cultural, not fanatical. Those who would crucify the Constitution on a Christian cross would do well to learn true history rather than listen only to pundits and liars.
Democracy cannot stand where it is controlled by religion. It is inevitable, where religion, or a mere “belief in a God,” becomes law, that democracy will fail. In its place will come a theocracy wherein the “faithful” are rewarded and those who must follow the dictates of their heart and mind rather than government religion will be hounded, persecuted, and murdered in the name of “God and Country.” This is the one and only outcome of “ending the separation of God and Country.” Texans, beware the slippery slope. Put an end to it before it is too late. Some of us stand firm against this effort: rfr_etx@live.com.

Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on February 20, 2012 at 7:23am

What a convenient thing it would be for christians if the separation of church and state were to be removed for their benefit. Nativity creches on public property would be an automatic, the ten commandments would likely show up in courtrooms and schoolrooms and another room they wanted, abortion would be illegal and probably birth control right behind it. Shoot, church attendance might even be mandated by law! After all, that's what they want, right?

Well, therein lies the problem. WHICH christianity gets recognized and whose beliefs get codified into law? Do the catholics get to force a fish-on-Friday law or would Bill & Joe's BBQ lobby against that, because it would cut into their weekend sales figures? What about the anglican churches that have embraced same-sex marriage? Do they just get stepped on because they're not in the majority? For that matter, what about all the moderate churches who worship on Sunday and do what they do and don't attempt to superimpose their beliefs on the government. Do they get a say at all or is it the loudest voice or the biggest bully that gets their way?

No great surprise, the folks in Tyler probably haven't considered any of these points. They have their nice, white-bread, mostly christian community which is occasionally impacted by them damn Yankees or someone else who stir the pot with their secular ways and their nose itches from that ... and so they attempt to deal with the irritation by cutting off said nose.

I mean, that solves the problem, don't it? [sigh!]

Permalink Reply by Ted Gresham on February 20, 2012 at 7:43am

These people live in a bubble.  They're not very smart, as a rule, not educated in science or politics or history--deliberately so.  They live in an "us" and "them" world.  It's a black and white world.  Either something is good or it is bad.  And they wouldn't know how to THINK if their life depended on it.  Although I lived among them, religiously speaking, for a very long time and know them well I never was ONE of them.  Their closed-minded idiotic world view always drove me nuts.

These people are clear in which form of christianity is the correct one: fundamental evangelical.  Catholics are in the minority, as are such other more "heretical" sects like Mormons, etc.  East Texas is populated with a combination of "good baptists," assemblies of god, with a sprinkling of more "liberal" churches like Methodist or Episcopal (which these people look askance at, too!).  Lesser denominations like Nazarene, Pentecostal, and Church of Christ would be on their side, even though when it gets down to doctrine there are some heated disagreements.

The biggest bullies are the ones trying to get their way.  They are "bullies for christ!"  JEEEZUSSS tells them to "fight this battle!"  They are so convinced of their rightness they care not who falls beneath the treads of their holy tanks.  This is WAR!

Like I said at first, they ain't very smart.  They don't HAVE to consider all those other points because GOD is on their side!  GOD will make the way!  They turn their thinking brain of entirely and push their agenda like a little kid pushing through a crowd expecting Momma to take care of all the bad things and clear their way.  It's a deliberately naive and childish attitude.  They are SHEEP.  No accident that the bible refers to them as such.

Permalink Reply by Sentient Biped on February 20, 2012 at 8:55am

What a sad commentary this is.  I don't doubt that it's largely true, but it's sad.   Having lived in communities that were slightly less insular and slightly less xenophobic, I can say from experience that sometimes the only safe thing to do is leave - and that results in the communities losing the insight and voices that might moderate their views.  "Might".

Permalink Reply by Pat on February 20, 2012 at 8:09am

They just need to do a 90 degree clockwise turn on the tips of the cross in their emblem, and they've hit it on the nose.

By the way Ted, excellent letter.

Permalink Reply by Chris Dodds on February 21, 2012 at 6:09pm

So, at least one conservative group finally shows their true colors.  They finally admit that a separation between church and state exists, they just want to make it go away.

Permalink Reply by Reason Being on February 24, 2012 at 1:37pm

Holy Crap---it gets worse every day doesn't it.  I hope that people other than us atheists are paying attention to the blatant Constitutional abuse that Christianity is committing on what seems like an hourly basis.