Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by The Secular One on October 9, 2009 at 3:58pm

I'm glad he is making it a criminal matter instead of a civil one. As long as they can dip into the nearly infinite coffers to pay people off, they aren't going to notice. If they start going to PRISON, maybe they'll think twice before raping children.

Permalink Reply by The Secular One on October 9, 2009 at 3:59pm

Isn't it amazing that God can't stop them from sullying His Name, but I bet a jail cell could!

Permalink Reply by The Secular One on October 9, 2009 at 7:13pm

Thanks for the explanation on that law bit! I don't know much about law for any country, but that's the system here for murders at least. However, rape and molestation have to have an accuser that takes it to court.

Permalink Reply by Graham Bevan on October 9, 2009 at 5:28pm

its just too much isn't it. The bishop who negotiates the settlement for victims of abuse actually found with Child pornography.. if he's guilty, a cell is really too good for him.

Permalink Reply by The Secular One on October 9, 2009 at 7:22pm

I agree that it is a sickness, but they still deserve a jail cell for ACTING on the illness. You can want to do something, but choose to not act on it. Unless you would also argue that they are so far gone they can't control their own actions...

Permalink Reply by The Secular One on October 10, 2009 at 6:01pm

So in your mind all rapists should get treatment not jail?

By the way, this isn't a judgmental question like "How dare you!" I'm just curious.

Permalink Reply by The Secular One on October 11, 2009 at 3:54am

Interesting. I agree to an extent. The main usefulness of prison to me is removing dangerous people from the public so they can't harm any further. Aside from that, I see no reason we can't try and correct their behaviors while we are at it.

I figure that should be an important part of the prison system, but here in the USA you have a political party that sees "helping of criminals" as "soft on crime". They even want to take away the educational chances they have now.

The only problem I would have with your approach is determining what is an "illness" and what is just a crime. That, though, is a question about as old as when we realized there was a difference.

Permalink Reply by The Secular One on October 11, 2009 at 2:19pm

The question becomes, "Do we want to send them to a "crime university" where their anti-social behaviour will be re-enforced by a whole community of criminals, or do we want them to come out of a treatment centre with at least some chance of being able to function as decent citizens?"

I think we are arguing semantics here. I'm not arguing for this at all. This is more of a prison reform issue. I totally agree that the United States current prison system is inadequate and run on bigotry and ignorance. We need more help for the mentally ill across the board, but in the US there is a huge stigma toward treatment of mental illness. There is also prevailing concept of "taking responsibility for your actions" such that even if someone does something due to mental illness, they are still punished like someone who isn't ill.

Personally, I think there could be something to the "personal responsibility" argument. I'm not saying for sure though, as the jury is still out on that. All I do know is that countries that treat criminals for mental illnesses and work to re-integrate them into societies have way less crime and a lower repeat of criminal activity.

However, with all that being said, I think there is more to the pedophile angle than just mental illness. How many pedophiles don't act on their urges because they know it is wrong? I don't know. How many act on it because they are in a position of power and think they should be allowed to do so? Apparently a lot. Perhaps it takes a touch of illness and a touch of thinking you can get away with it. If that is true, then it is a choice, and a chosen crime and not just an illness.

Permalink Reply by Graham Bevan on October 9, 2009 at 11:08pm

I agree that they may well be sick, however, I believe in consequences, and while I freely admit that I resent the amount of money spent on inmates, I see nothing wrong with punishment. I feel too much effort has been spent on trying to "understand" or to "excuse" and why should we bother trying to find a cure, when the cause is all too evident, religion, in this case catholicism. Lets find ways of using our resources to eliminate the cause rather than treat the symptom. So in short, lock the sicko's up (and Canada's penal system seems rather liberal for my liking.. a different discussion I'm sure! :) ) and lets work as we can to undermine the position and hereditary authority of religion

Permalink Reply by The Secular One on October 11, 2009 at 3:56am

Catholicism isn't causing the pedophila. That isn't the problem at all. The problem is the church is keeping the people out of the hands of justice, and in the population where they can rape more children.

Don't blame the church for creating pedophiles, blame the church for harboring known criminals.