Introduction - Please read!

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Fiona on August 25, 2008 at 10:47pm

Hiya!
I read it! Boy am I glad I dont have to come up with impressive prose lol
Thanx for having me here and look forward to talking to you all
Bi Bi
Fee

Permalink Reply by Phillip A. Ellis on August 26, 2008 at 1:55am

G'day!

I feel like a bit of an outsider, despite being an editor andwebmaster. The latter is the more curious of the two, as the publication for which I am webmaster is an ostensibly Christian one, that prefers family-friendly and inspirational poetry. Guess, once I start submitting, I'll be demonstrating that an atheist can produce suitable material, whilst eschewing the religious.

Phillip

Permalink Reply by Dr Peter on August 28, 2008 at 10:21pm

Phillip,

That commission seems like an interesting challenge (re: the latter).
Who defines 'inspirational'?

Permalink Reply by Gomo on September 29, 2008 at 12:51am

Put weblinks to atheistnexus.org all over the website and see how that goes down.

Permalink Reply by Dr Peter on August 28, 2008 at 10:46pm

Diana,

I'm certain any input from a freethinking mind is worth more than a thousand bible classes!

The experiences of rational thinking individuals coming together to add our respective shreds of experience helps build the neural network that helps give a rational commentary on what happens in the workplace.

So you're right - your contribution adds to the data; but far from being less than terribly helpful it's people like yourself that are prepared to contribute that help highlight where paradigm paralysis places a road-block on greater understanding.

You might imagine how preposterous it would be now to discount Galileo Galilei's views on heliocentrism due to his failure to recite accurately on demand Psalm 93:1, Psalm 104:5 and Ecclesiastes 1:5.

Even when you feel your need to contribute might be moving into territory that's 'off topic' .... I would rather see that as part of the process of minds that can see beyond fixed and outdated paradigms.

I'd rather view each of us as one 'unit' of rationality - with equal likelihood of being 'terribly helpful'.

Permalink Reply by Wes on August 26, 2008 at 11:40am

I'm the operations manager for a 20 employee manufacturing company that makes super-precision parts for the pulp and paper industry. I can't say that religion has had a negative impact, but unscientific thinking and superstition are major problems I deal with every day.

My direct supervisor is the company president. He holds a bachelors degree in some sort of religious studies from a bible college and has no comprehension of scientific method. I will say that he is loyal, extremely honest, and good at talking to people which makes him a fantastic liaison between us and our customers. The problems arise when he gets involved in our manufacturing process.

Our main product is a stainless steel rod with high-precision threads. I won't bore anyone with the details of how the product is used, but when I say high-precision, I'm talking tolerances of +/- less than 30 nanometers. A human hair is around 100,000 nanometers in diameter. We also have threads that are much larger and have a much wider tolerance. The difficulty between manufacturing a small thread vs. a large thread is in the neighborhood of 3 orders of magnitude.

No matter how many times I explain this to my boss and no matter how many examples I give him of what an order of magnitude is, he still sees no difference between a large thread and a small thread. Because of this, he prices them them same to our customers, promises the same lead times, and offers products with tolerances that we aren't even capable of achieving.

Occasionally he will ask me to make something with a ridiculous tolerance and I will tell him that I'll try, but it'll probably just end up being an exercise in futility and will generate a bunch of scrap. He has actually told me that I shouldn't "curse" the parts and that I should "have faith." Attempts to explain that what I say will not have a physical impact on the parts and that the only thing I have faith in is physics and statistics are met with confused laughter.

So I would say that my Boss' inability to think scientifically has probably been a major hindrance to my company. His religion hasn't directly impacted us, but I believe his unreason is the root cause of his devout religious beliefs as well. Whichever way you slice it, he can be pretty damn frustrating to work for sometimes.

Permalink Reply by Dr Peter on August 28, 2008 at 10:13pm

Thank-you for the comment Wes,

May I enquire for a little further detail on the entity?

How long has the company been in operation? How long has the entity operated in the capacity that it currently has? What length of involvement has the President had?
Lastly... had the President been someone of a secular outlook and not bound by some faith - do you anticipate a different track of development may have taken place... for instance... would you see the operation still having 20 employees and working at the same capacity?

Permalink Reply by LoLo on August 26, 2008 at 6:38pm

Oddly enough my boss teaches a class every Wednesday night and I act as a teacher's assistant. We work in PR (Public Relations) and we have to have an answer for everything, and sometimes it hurts for us to be biased when talking to a potential client.

First of all it is very impolite to talk about politics, religion and sports in the work place... but sometimes its unavoidable. I would never directly ask someone how they feel about any of those topics unless I was covering a specific story about one of those topics.

I digress, my boss taught the class what you should do if you were asked an inappropriate question and this goes for almost anything you don't want to answer if you feel it could hurt you. Let's say someone asks you directly "what is your religion?" Should anyone, even a Christian, answer this directly? I don't, you have to tap dance around the issue in my field. If someone were to ask me that what my religion is, I may respond with something like this:

"You know, that's an interesting question. I come from a background of multiple faiths and diverse belief systems, but I never really defined myself as one faith or another. While I believe in many things, and respect everyone's right to practice any faith, or not. I don't think it would be true to say I practice a dogma, per se."

And then you move on to the next subject, probably by asking that person a question once you finish your answer. Your clients shouldn't be asking about personal information like that anyway.

As far as my co-workers go, the topic has never really come up. I'm friends with a lot of my co-workers on facebook and none of them have their religion posted. I honestly don't think anyone I work with is religious at all...

I go to lunch with another girl, Betsy, who practically has the same job I have, and we always see these jesus people preaching downtown, and we've made fun of them a lot. Betsy even told me outside of work one day that her roommate pulls that 'holier than thou" bullshit on her b/c she doesn't go to church. I said to her that it shouldn't matter if you go to church or not.

Permalink Reply by Dr Peter on August 28, 2008 at 10:18pm

LoLo I note where you mention you have to tap dance around the issue in your field.... re: being asked directly about your faith; and on that topic -

*Has the question arisen in your case?
*Do you know where it has arisen for others?

Permalink Reply by LoLo on August 29, 2008 at 2:29pm

I've been lucky enough to work with people who aren't religious. When I was in retail in college most of the people there were atheists, or they just hated religion. It was unique, but made for fun conversation once the customers left. Some of our customers were deeply religious, and they wore it on their sleeve....but we just made fun of them after they left.

Currently where I work no one has asked me about what I believe, I haven't even really talked to anyone about religion. We're too concerned about keeping clients than worry about religion.

I've only dealt with a few clients since I have been working there, and they all seem to be liberal enough to not really care about what I believe in. But I'm too polite of a person to bring up anything like that myself.

There is one kid I'm working with, he used to go to this private christian school, but tested out of the 12th grade and wanted to drop out. He said he didn't like high school at all. I've known many people who have gone to that particular private christian school he went to. They require that you take a bible class every semester, and they don't have a science curriculum. And there are two types of people who attend that school: Those who love it and never want to leave, they are creationists. Those who hate it but are too afraid to say anything, these people are usually agnostic/atheist.

Judging by how this kid talks about this private school, I don't think he's religious, and may be questioning his beliefs. But he's a minor, so even though I'd like to talk to him, to let him know there are other people who feel the same way... I'm not b/c i can't imagine the world of trouble I may get in if I interfere with his super religious family. It would look bad on me and my firm.

Permalink Reply by lOS`AMIGOS on August 29, 2008 at 5:40am

Thanks for the invite Dr Peter . So glad there is room for rough diamonds , i hope to try to do my best to keep my spelling under control .

Im not looking to excuse , but in my case religion had a big effect on my schooling.

Permalink Reply by Dr Peter on September 5, 2008 at 5:34am

lOS`AMIGOS,

You're welcome.

No need to feel any pressure to come up with textbook standard spelling/grammatical expression. There are plenty of skilled theist authors that write with spelling perfection; - a load of verbal refuse.

Feel free to tell us more about that point - 'in my case religion had a big effect on my schooling'.

And..... did that further follow on to have implications on your work career?

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