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Comment by Michael Hutchinson on January 15, 2010 at 11:12am

The Buddha said to only believe that which we can observe and confirm for ourselves. It is mostly Buddhists who get angry for me to discuss this issue because it flies in the face of their dogmatic teaching that they've accumulated over time.

Things constantly change each moment. Each moment we "die" and are "reborn". Depending on what we do, it influences our "rebirth" in the next moment. That deals with the teaching of karma.

We can observe this moment, but we have never observed anyone reincarnating. It is of the most importance that we do not attach dogma to our experience of the current moment. Doing this leads to more problematic and unanswerable questions which leads to more dukha (suffering).

I see this to be the case with many traditions attached to Buddhism. Many times the robes that the monks wear are more elegant than what an average person wears. If one is renouncing their possessions, how can it be possible if there is gaining more elegant material things in the process?

Any person who is honest can observe the fact that there are indeed things wrong with Buddhism in the light that its being presented.

Another touchy issue is the issue of mystical Buddhas living in other realms to help others attain enlightenment. Again, can we observe this realm where these Buddhas supposedly reside? The problem is that some who call themselves Buddhists will worship these mystical Buddhas (which have no proof of existence) to gain a quicker enlightenment.

My biggest problem comes from those within the Zen tradition who fall into this trap, because it has no basis within the early origins of Zen. My favorite quote from a Zen master is this,

"Followers of the Way, if you want to get the kind of understanding that accords with the Dharma, never be misled by others. Whether you're facing inward or facing outward, whatever you meet up with, just kill it! If you meet a buddha, kill the buddha. If you meet a patriarch, kill the patriarch. If you meet an arhat, kill the arhat. If you meet your parents, kill your parents. If you meet your kinfolk, kill your kinfolk. Then for the first time you will gain emancipation, will not be entangled with things, will pass freely anywhere you wish to go."
--Linji

Of course this isn't literally referring to the killing of people (albeit karmic merit sometimes needs the killing of a mass murderer, rapist, etc.) but it is referring to stomping it out of your mind. It is speaking of the dependence on others and negating it.

Gods cannot be observed, and therefore should be tossed to the mental trash can. This will offend many people, but isn't a description of truth much better than a description of a lie? Surely one should rather wish to learn to cope with the truth, rather than believing lies to make yourself feel good.

Comment by Karam Gill on December 28, 2009 at 7:18pm

This is exactly the group ive been looking for.

Comment by Hiram on November 22, 2009 at 3:22pm

I went to a Buddhist service today, I do that on some Sundays, I like that you don't have to believe in the supernatural to be into Buddhism, it's very scientific, psychological and humanistic.

I think one thing that it does for me is that it helps me to overcome a lot of the cinicism I've developed over the years. I can cultivate some humility and other virtues with a scientific and pragmatic mindset. I choose to see it personally more as a philosophy than a religion.

Comment by Pansy on November 22, 2009 at 2:02pm

i'd contemplated being a buddhist and studied buddhism for a few years. by definition, buddhists are atheists- denying the existence of a god, a personal, all knowing, all good, creator, god. i would love to 'get back into it' and hopefully being with you all, will give me a little push.... :)

Comment by Jenny on September 26, 2009 at 12:22pm

Oh thank you! Here I was thinking I had this horrible secret to keep! I love being a Buddhist, I'm also an atheist, I'm glad there are other people who are both.

Comment by It's just Matt on July 21, 2009 at 10:53pm

I was downloading ebooks and came across this nifty site full of free downloads: http://buddhanet.net/ebooks_g.htm

I have a lot of ebooks already, if you are trying to find one, let me know

Comment by Chuck on May 28, 2009 at 4:31pm

Glad I found a web site on this subject. I have practiced Tibetan Buddhism for 25 years and in the last 4 years have dedicated more time and effort to it. Having lost any theistic notions in college as a philosophy major, I have been able to study related subjects for a long time.
I think Buddhism has many cultural aspects that are hard to assimilate in our western thinking. The concept of Emptiness is a basic Buddhist concept. See http://www.purifymind.com/EmptinessBuddPhi.htm for a short explanation. The arguments supporting emptiness preclude any notion of a creating eternal theistic being. Any deity is just another dependently created aspect of our experienced reality. I think that humans tend to idealize a concept and then represent it in some form. Tiger Woods as the ideal golfer who I want to be like. Easier to hold in our minds and talk about. It is all psychology and therefore no claims of eternal powers. In fact, deity worship involves an attempt to visualize and emulate a concept, which activates areas of the brain and help change awareness. Therefore, theism is not a Buddhist concept.

Comment by JohnFrost on February 11, 2009 at 3:41pm

In celebration of Darwin's birthday tomorrow, I wrote a little bit about Darwin and how his compassion and concern with suffering influenced him.

http://thenaturalbuddhist.blogspot.com/2009/02/dawinpada.html

Comment by JohnFrost on February 8, 2009 at 6:54am

Just joined Atheist Nexus and signed up for a crapload of groups... But this is the one I'm most excited about. I've been studying Buddhism for about two months now and going to sangha for a few weeks, and everything I've learned about the dharma is not only compatible with my atheism, it's backed up by my research into neuroscience.
I've actually started a blog on the intersection of the two, if anyone wants to check it out (click my name).

I look forward to discussing the dharma here with fellow atheists.
JohnFrost

Comment by Kevin on January 23, 2009 at 5:36am

Hi Calvin. Thanks for your comments. Are you Korean? Im sorry if im not familiar with the form of buddhism you were brought up in, perhaps you could fill me up on that. There can be many kinds of misunderstanding since buddhism is practiced differently - therevada, mahayana, its suboffshoot zen buddhism...

I think we are on the same point actually, that there are some types of people who do deitify the buddha (hence non atheist) and some who do not regard him as god (your family, my family also). However, practicing buddhists, also believe in some aspects of buddhism such as transfer of merit, karma, rebirth/reincarnation, different realms of birth etc. And these beliefs form the basis of their socio-religious structure. For example, in theravada buddhist thailand, accural of merit is done by donating to the temple, serving as a monk etc so that they can get a better rebirth their next lifetime, or in mahayana chinese temples, pple to good deeds or donate to the temple to transfer merit to their ancestors as well.

So the line of debate is, even if buddha were not a god, by broader definition of atheism, do atheists also accept such "mystical" and non provable concepts which buddhism partly inherited from hinduism? After all, atheists are rational people who are unsure about god because it "cant be proven" - neither are these ideas of mysticism.

However, should we choose to narrow the atheist definition just to the probable non existance of "gods" alone... It is also acceptable to the buddhists (in the doctrines) that spirits, hungry ghosts, and beings from other realms of birth do exist, although Gautama the buddha was reborn as a man in his final birth, and hence he was not a god or spirit.

Hence how atheist a buddhist can be depends on his adopted form of buddhism, or if the person merely subscribes to buddhist philosophy. We could ask ourselves what are we...

Cheers, Kevin

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