Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by James M. Martin on July 6, 2012 at 5:41pm

Heh, heh, you clever chap!  Here is dictionary.com on teleology:

tel·e·ol·o·gy

   [tel-ee-ol-uh-jee, tee-lee-]

noun Philosophy .

1.

the doctrine that final causes exist.

2.

the study of the evidences of design or purpose in nature.

3.

such design or purpose.

4.

the belief that purpose and design are a part of or are apparent in nature.

5.

(in vitalist philosophy) the doctrine that phenomena are guided not only by mechanical forces but that they also move toward certain goals of self-realization.

 

I am afraid that dictionary.com begs more questions than they answer, and I always was scared away from comments beginning in some form of the root word, "telos," which I always thought an ending, a closure (to borrow from newspeak).  I have to think one's teleology stamps one with certain qualities, positive and negative depending upon the observer's point of view, that make up one's "self," a word I much prefer to the elitist "soul."  (Buddhism goes far enough when it redefines karma as skandas, aspects of former personalities rather than anything metaphysically like a soul.)  I debate with particular delight female chauvinist persons ("pig" was strong even for a male), Catholic hair-slicers, and people who never learned to enjoy life and so would never know what one missed growing old as did Ernest Hemingway, whose telos was a fairly nasty double-barreled "self-slaughter" (as Hitchens put it).  But Hemingway was a born stoic: he understood only too well what Seneca realized, that when one had endured enough, when one no longer enjoys the pursuits of youth, when one is no longer paricularly able to be of service, self-slaughter is a viable telos.

 

Yet, even in death we encounter dogma attached to our telos: if you self-slaughter, don't think you're going to get a burial in sacred ground.  Can you believe that? "Sacred ground."  What the hell is sacred ground?  The soldiers buried in unmarked graves the world over are buried in sacred ground.  The grounds of the RCC cemeteries are no more sacred for having a priest do the mumbo jumbo and sprinkle Perrier over a clod to two, than a teenaged Satanist's fumbling ritual by Anton LaVey.  (The pimply teen makes do with Mogen David because the Sacrament is unavailable: sheesh, he hasn't dated yet!) 

 

My father once represented in court a police captain accused of being on the take.  He did not get him off, but I must expect that some of the jurors at least enjoyed Dad's comical, Perry Mason courtroom antics.  Then they had to apply the law to the facts.  After the trial, the captain could not take the disgrace: a copper on the take.  The officers who Dad said lied in court gloated when the jury returned its conviction. The Captain went home and shot his brains out.

 

A few days later, Dad came home grumbling about the Catholic Church.  "They won't let the Captain be buried in sacred ground."

 

I believe I can, thus, pinpoint another moment in my life that began to predispose me to my ultimate conclusion that religion is the Devil; the clergy, his Satanic staff.

Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo on July 7, 2012 at 12:24am

What is the purpose of life?

A bee wakes up in the morning, leaves its hive and flies from flower to flower in order to get nectar that is its food. In the process it pollinates plants. And we all know how important bees are to agriculture for food for humans. The bee doesn’t rub its front legs together saying, “I have to do the will of god.” It does what it does to maintain itself and to participate with other bees to produce the next generation, to maintain and protect it.

A robin gets up, sings, searches for worms, pulls them out of the ground and eats them or takes them to a nest of baby robins. It sings, flies, runs, listens, eats, poops, lays eggs, maintains, and protects the next generation. It doesn’t say, “I must pray to god for guidance.”

A human gets up, does whatever it takes to maintain oneself, socializes, finds a mate of the other sex or the same sex, learns, explores, experiments, fails and succeeds at whatever interests him or her, some have babies, some adopt babies or children, and does what is necessary to be healthy, active and participate in living. There is no meaning or purpose to life, at least not as imagined by those who seek meaning and purpose. There is no grand plan or blueprint for the individual.

Whether bee, robin, or human, there is no grand design, meaning or purpose. Life is. That is all. And then it is over. One’s life creates meaning and purpose, for good or for ill. It is not a goal that is one’s purpose; it is one’s effect on oneself and others. Thriving, flourishing, comes about by living in balance.

Evolution is a process of change and adaptation and flexibility of thought and act. If there were another planet that supported life, there is no reason to believe it would develop Homo sapiens or other life forms such as found on Earth. There is not a silent hand of god directing evolutionary processes, no one to ask for help or guidance, no divine power to protect one. Life is. That is all. 

 

Permalink Reply by Richard Goscicki on July 7, 2012 at 11:24am

Quite so, Joan.  We certainly see eye to eye. 

"There is no grand plan or blueprint for the individual."

That’s why I feel the line by Gaylord G. Simpson is so important.  Paraphrased, “Mankind is the result of random and purposeless forces of nature that did not have him/er in mind.” 

If people would only realize this, we’d be better able to cope with the serious problems that threaten the world.  No God is coming to save us.  There’s no good or evil in nature.  The only thing that counts is if it works to increase chances of survival. 

I like your line about, “Life is. That is all.”  Similar to what Barbara said about the universe.  “It just is, what meaning could it possibly have?” 

That line of reasoning leads to Cynthia’s enticing conclusion, ““C’mon, do I have to write you a memo? What can I say?  We evolved from oversexed primates; that’s not my fault.  Let’s make the best of it.” 

These conclusions lead to an entire different worldview of just about everything. 

 

 

 

Permalink Reply by Richard Goscicki on July 7, 2012 at 12:22pm

James, hoping not to appear too much a modern-day Humpty Dumpty, “A word means what I want it to mean,” the word “teleology” has varied meanings but I’m using it to refer to the study of purpose or goal. 

 

I’ve always had an interest and fascination with etymology.  A really fun study.  Words like companion, for instance, from the Latin for “bread” and “with,” someone you eat with.  I recently learned some beauties:  How about “movies” and “gypsy”?  Barbara’s Man Made God has a treasure trove full of them.  Words like hag, berserk, and crone.  The middle one, as I remember, is from the Celtic referring to getting high, putting on a bear skin and running around the campfire.

 

My examples refer to the abbreviation or shortening of the term, “moving pictures” and the latter people who said they were from Egypt but were actually migrants from the Russian Steppes. 

 

A few days later, Dad came home grumbling about the Catholic Church.  "They won't let the Captain be buried in sacred ground."

 

I can imagine if they ever told me that.  I’d say, “Who the heck wants to be buried on sacred ground with all those holier-than-thou spooks flying around?” 

 

More pertinent to the discussion above, neology also enters the picture.  Put simply it’s the study and coining of new words, which I always had a penchant for.  Mirror Reversal introduces three which I hope will someday be household words.

 

I believe they would be very important to a new religion based on the revelation of science.  “Endmeme” refers to the belief that Christ or the Holy Prophet is coming to destroy the world and bring on the Day of Judgment.  It’s a perilous situation when you consider that most of the world’s population believes it.  The possibility of self- fulfilling prophecy increases tremendously.  Used in a sentence, “Mitt Romney shouldn’t be elected because he’s infected by the endmeme.”

 

The next word I made up (as far as I know) and is equally important is “futureworld.”  What does that say about society when we don’t even have a word to describe what continues after we’re gone?  Futureworld should be a major concern of our lives, and we don’t even have a word for it. 

 

The last word is, “Ga-Ga”, a word I was using in Mirror Reversal years before the popular lady came around.  In deference to time and brevity, it’s a sorority word that the girls use to describe a particular type of sister.  Cynthia was the biggest ga-ga they had ever seen.  I’ll let your imagination figure this one out.

 

Thanks for your comment.  Fun stuff, Rich. 

 

Permalink Reply by Logan A on July 25, 2012 at 5:17pm

Just to add the inimitable Tim Minchin's ideas on the purpose of life to the mix, from his epic and amazing piece Storm  (link):

Isn’t this enough?
Just this world?
Just this beautiful, complex
Wonderfully unfathomable world?
How does it so fail to hold our attention
That we have to diminish it with the invention
Of cheap, man-made Myths and Monsters?
If you’re so into Shakespeare
Lend me your ear:
“To gild refined gold, to paint the lily,
To throw perfume on the violet… is just fucking silly”
Or something like that.

Or what about Satchmo?!
I see trees of Green,
Red roses too,
And fine, if you wish to
Glorify Krishna and Vishnu
In a post-colonial, condescending
Bottled-up and labeled kind of way
That’s ok.

But here’s what gives me a hard-on:
I am a tiny, insignificant, ignorant lump of carbon.
I have one life, and it is short
And unimportant…
But thanks to recent scientific advances
I get to live twice as long as my great great great great uncles and auntses.
Twice as long to live this life of mine
Twice as long to love this wife of mine
Twice as many years of friends and wine
Of sharing curries and getting shitty
With good-looking hippies
With fairies on their spines
And butterflies on their titties.

Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo on July 25, 2012 at 7:24pm

Logan, I love it and Tim Minchin's presentation. Two things:

"Isn’t this enough?
Just this world?
Just this beautiful, complex
Wonderfully unfathomable world?"

"But here’s what gives me a hard-on:
I am a tiny, insignificant, ignorant lump of carbon.
I have one life, and it is short
And unimportant…"

Permalink Reply by Richard Goscicki on July 26, 2012 at 11:09am

Logan, just great!  Some really cleaver, tricky rhymes in there:  Vishnu/wish to, lily/silly.  You have talent.

You remind me of the great songwriter Lorenz Hart.  He’s probably before your time, but his talent always amazed me since I was a kid.  He’s a fellow Brooklynite, maybe that’s why.  Lorenz Hart was Richard Rogers’ partner before the great Oscar Hammerstein.  Just a charming man.  A lot of the old standards were written by him.  Consider, “you’ll look so fancy on old Delancy, Street you know.”  Or, “the city’s a great big world (pronounced ‘whirl’).  Just made for a boy and girl (pronounced ‘goyl’).”  Your line about the “advances and uncles and auntses” reminds me of it. 

I wonder if you heard of these songs:  Where or When, My Heart Stood Still, Blue Moon, Mountain Greenery. Here’s an example of what I’m trying to get at.  From the latter song, here’s some fun stuff:  Dig how great it sounds when sung.  Hope you enjoy it. 

 

When you love your lover, let

Blue skies be your coverlet. 

 

Now’s the time to trust

To your wanderlust.

 

Beans could get no keener reception in a beanery. 

Bless our mountain greenery home.