"You're young, you'll blah blah blah..."

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Permalink Reply by Terry McCoy on August 8, 2010 at 4:28pm

Also never let anyone assume how you grow up. How you mature is up to you and your own personal experiences. Its one of the reasons some people can be so retarded in one are and an expert in another at the same time.

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Permalink Reply by Black Magick Woman on August 8, 2010 at 4:32pm

I'm sure I'll have some perspective moments as I age, no doubt about that. However, the way the line has been (and is) used, it's always in an "I am right, you are wrong" state of mind, with an air of arrogance that makes me want to punch the person who said it. It just makes me tune you out, and I'm sure that's not what their aim is, but considering it's usually used against a personal decision (as Meag eloquently stated above), they should usually just stfu.

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Permalink Reply by Nabil Ashour on August 9, 2010 at 9:44pm

I make exception to being told I dont know shit when its a rather old person. They do the talking in coversations not the young. Thats a fact of life

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Permalink Reply by Sam Jones on August 9, 2010 at 9:46pm

screw that, if anyone old or young tells me "i don't know shit" without proof they can fuck right off with that attitude. At that point they are just copping out unless they can prove that i really don't know anything.

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Permalink Reply by Black Magick Woman on August 10, 2010 at 3:44pm

VERY good, I love it! =)

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Permalink Reply by Gary Connolly on August 10, 2010 at 10:05am

Most people go through a process of changing attitudes are they grow older. It has nothing to do with intellect. It is based on experience. Middle age people tend, (it is not at all true of everyone), to see more of the grey areas where any issue is concerned. The very young and the very old tend to view things in more absolute terms. I personally would never dismiss the opinion of someone just becasue they are young. Consider the young person who has had their heart broken for the first time. They have no experience of it. They think the world is going to end. An older person may tell them. "Don't worry, it will get better". The younger person may insist that it won't. They feel like it won't but the older person simply knows better due to experience. Often times young people cannot see that they are being exploited or doing something that will prove disasterous for them. An older person who has experience with these things is not say that the young person is stupid or can't make a decision. They are only saying "You are young and don't have experience of these things."

An extreme example might be a child asking an older person why the army can't just kill all the bad people in the world and then everything will be fine. An older person can only suggest that it is more complicated than that. As the child grows there usage of phrases like "Why can't X just do Y" will become rarer and rarer as they begin to understand the complexities of situations that previously seemed so clear.

Republicans basically never grow up :P

Rest assured, you will someday condesend to younger people. I know that sounds condescending.. :P

When does the cycle of ageism and youth discrimination end? (not to sound..melodramatic, lol)
When and only when you are the oldest person in the room :)

Consider the children thing.
An ex of mine swore she would never had kids, didn't want them, end of! She used to joke about having her tubes tied.
Her mother told her that she might well change her mind in the future. She was borderline offended by this. When she reached, something around the age of thirty, she began to rapidly change her mind! :)
Often times, it is only when we are coming to a point of no return about a particular descision that we really begin to consider it and it's implications fully.
While I have no doubt that you are entirely sincere when you say you don't want kids, I must confess to the condescention of believing that at 21 you simply are not old enough to really know if you want kids or not. To be a little more precise, you are too young to know you will never want kids.
It is definately condescending and no doubt a little unfair but I have seen this particular decision be reversed by so many women in their late twenties or early thirties that you would have to be at least 30 before I would be willing to really believe it :)

Incidentally, I think anyone who makes statements about their future wants or decisions is being very premature. We cannot know what we will want or believe in the future. Consider the expression "I love you". It is profound and meaningful. The expression "I will always love you" is a little naieve and only really means "I love you". :)

Long live ageism!!!!

It is a tautology, that everyone younger than you is too inexperienced to know what they are talking about and that everyone older than you is just an out of touch, boring old "stick in the mud" :P

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Permalink Reply by Black Magick Woman on August 10, 2010 at 3:41pm

While I have no doubt that you are entirely sincere when you say you don't want kids, I must confess to the condescention of believing that at 21 you simply are not old enough to really know if you want kids or not. To be a little more precise, you are too young to know you will never want kids.
It is definately condescending and no doubt a little unfair but I have seen this particular decision be reversed by so many women in their late twenties or early thirties that you would have to be at least 30 before I would be willing to really believe it :)

Incidentally, I think anyone who makes statements about their future wants or decisions is being very premature. We cannot know what we will want or believe in the future.

This right here is what Meag pointed out earlier about personal decisions. Whether or not many women have changed their tunes in their 30s is not completely irrelevant, but the fact that no one takes me (or any young adult) seriously when I list the reasons as to WHY and HOW I came to this decision as a 21 year old (someone quite capable of making big decisions in their life, and for their future), is VERY relevant. So already, you basically HAVE dismissed my opinion based on my age.

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Permalink Reply by Sam Jones on August 10, 2010 at 4:56pm

Where do they grow women like you? Because i'll move there tomorrow. In all fairness, some of my reasons for not wanting kids are selfish. I don't care that they are selfish, because I can be selfish with MY life. I want to spend my life traveling, learning, working etc. I don't wish to spend it raising children. I want to find someone with similar goals and give all my love to her, travel the world with her expierencing life with her, then grow old sitting on the porch somewhere sipping iced tea and talking about all the memories. That's what I want out of life, and if others can't respect that, then they can piss off.

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Permalink Reply by Black Magick Woman on August 10, 2010 at 5:02pm

Exactly Meag! Anecdotes aren't evidence that I myself will change my mind on a decision, especially if the reasons I came to this decision are (for the most part) valid. I have said never to children, but I recanted, because I leave the option for adoption open. I have, however, said never to bio-kids. Gary, your ex may have joked about getting her tubes tied, but I don't joke, I am quite serious about having my own tied.

The same goes for my decision about college. I decided to go (and continue) with college for the purpose of learning and for the impact it'll have on my future. I don't just make decisions willy-nilly that I know will have a huge impact on my future, that would be the epitome of immature, don't ya think?

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Permalink Reply by Gary Connolly on August 10, 2010 at 5:35pm

The Meag,

Why do you think someone is questioning your ability to make decisions for yourself? That is not what is being questioned at all. Older people whose experience of life was probably a hell of a lot closer to your experience of life than you might like to imagine have the experience of what it is like to have their priorities and outlooks change over time. They have already gone from positions of certainty about issues to complete reversals and know that it can happen. It is not guaranteed to happen but I personally think it is unrealistic to declare with certainty that it won't. As I alluded to earlier, conviction about what we will do or how we will feel about things in the future is a property almost exclusive to young people. The reason is that older people tend to lose such certainties is experience. They have been there and done that.

Also, no-one is questioning that you feel that way you say you do now. I have no doubt that you do. The only thing doubted by older people is that you will definately feel that way many years from now.

Judge all you want, but just know that your preconceived notions about my maturity or experience say a lot more about you and the stereotypes that you are propagating than they do about me.
stereotypes? Judgements? What perconceptions, beyond the fact that young people by virtue of being young factually do not have as much life experience as someone considerably older than them, are you talking about?
No one is suggesting that you are some kind of ditsy child who has no clue about what she wants. It is nothing like that. The only thing in doubt is your certainty.

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Permalink Reply by Gary Connolly on August 10, 2010 at 5:35pm

BMW,

No, I haven't dismissed anything. I am not saying that I would just assume you will change your mind, you might not. What I am suggesting here is that I have seen the decision reversed far too often to completely accept it from someone who essentially is not in the position of having to finally make the decision yet.

Do you think that the women I knew who did eventually change their minds had no good reasons for why the didn't want kids? Of course they did. It is simply a fact of growing older that your priorities change. It is not your intellect, rationality or the soundness of your judgement that I would question. I question only your ability to know what your priorities will be in 10 years time. I question this, not due to any lack on your part but on the basis of experience with similar views being expressed. Indeed the unwillingness on my part to accept younger peoples certainties about their future is a generality. Some young people will do exactly as they claim they will.

Are you suggesting by the way that you always assume that when someone younger than you expresses an opinion, you never get the "just give it time" feeling?

Honestly now, If a sixteen year old told you that they would never touch drink or drugs ever, would you take that at face value and harbour no feelings about them being to young to really know yet? No suspicions that their view might change?
If you would have such feelings, then you officially know what it is like to condescend to someone younger than you based on life experience.

I should mention again. I entirely believe you when you say that you don't want kids. I don't doubt it for a second. I only doubt that you can know at the age you are now that you will never want kids. Incidentally, I tend to take "I will never" or "I will always" statements with a grain of salt no matter what age the person who makes the statement is.

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Permalink Reply by Black Magick Woman on August 10, 2010 at 5:56pm

"I have said never to children, but I recanted, because I leave the option for adoption open. I have, however, said never to bio-kids." I also said that I would prefer and would like to remain childfree, and that if I did cave in to this ridiculous baby-race, it'd be with an adopted child, as I see no point in creating new life. Please try and remember what I say before going on your "never say never" tangent.

If the 16 year old wants to say "I'll never use drugs" that's on them, I'd just shrug and go about my day, because I don't necessarily care if they do or not. It's their personal decision, isn't it? If they decide to experiment, I'm not going to be there to say "I told you so!".

Why do you feel it is your duty to give me examples of women I personally know nothing about? I have my own anecdotes of women who changed their minds, and they register as important to me, as the women you use as your examples. Furthermore, why does it seem like MEN are usually the ones telling me "don't say never to kids, you're a woman remember, you'll change your mind!!!!"?

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