Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Graeme on February 19, 2010 at 5:14pm

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke

I think the whole concept of god is purely the product of primitive magical thinking and am 100% certainty that no "gods" exist.

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Permalink Reply by Jonny Marko on February 19, 2010 at 7:56pm

I can't "know" with 100% certainty that Fred Savage isn't hiding in my closet without checking to make sure. It's physically possible, however, an infinite number of other things which I have absolutely no evidence towards whilst sitting at my desk are also physically possible. It would be silly to consider the possibility of any one of these things over another, including the possible existence of god.

I agree with the view that agnosticism towards any single "possibility" over another is just absurd. The possibility of a god carries only the illusion of being more possible than Santa/etc because it is held so widely as a popular belief. But that's not my fault! :)

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Permalink Reply by Gliktch on February 20, 2010 at 7:11pm

"I can't "know" with 100% certainty that Fred Savage isn't hiding in my closet without checking to make sure." - Jonny Marko

But even after you do check, you still don't 'know', it could be a trick like when a magician shows the box is empty, but it's actually an illusion using mirrors :P

As much as we can 'know' anything, we can KNOW that none of the mainstream prevailing god-claims (say, any cult of Mormon size or larger) are possible, due to either internal/logical inconsistencies or due to contradictory real-world evidence.

Most self-proclaimed 'atheists' are agnostic atheists, meaning we don't claim absolute knowledge that there are NO GODS, but this does not preclude being able to claim that "I know YOUR god does not exist" (@ a theist).

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Permalink Reply by Gila Guerilla on February 19, 2010 at 8:10pm

If you want to understand an atheistic view of cosmology, watch 'A Universe From Nothing' by Lawrence Krauss, AAI 2009 :-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo

It is suited to the intelligent lay person, yet highly enlightening, entertaining and up-to-date.

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Permalink Reply by Sonny Mobley on February 19, 2010 at 8:32pm

The problem is when people let the simple fact that one can not say with 100% certainty that a god does not exist lessen their assertion that a god does not exist. The point isn't that anyone knows for sure if a god exists. The point is that we have no reason at all to believe a god is in existence. And that god-belief and belief in an after-life is ultimately harmful to us.

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Permalink Reply by mojo5501 on February 20, 2010 at 10:31am

The point is that we have no reason at all to believe a god is in existence. And that god-belief and belief in an after-life is ultimately harmful to us.

I think reasons exist....I just think they're not persuasive reasons for me, personally.

How is belief in god/afterlife ultimately harmful? I'd like to hear your reasons for finding it "harmful". Do you mean because it causes people to do harmful things to each other...or do you mean emotionally harmful? Or both? I know that many atheists frame the argument this way, but I often don't hear how they've reached the conclusion of "harmful".

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Permalink Reply by Tom Thompson on February 20, 2010 at 10:42am

Consider a congressman who votes on public policy about the environment, use of natural resources, international public relations, and any other long term issues based on a personal belief that the world will come to an end within his own lifetime. I would argue that this is harmful.

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Permalink Reply by mojo5501 on February 20, 2010 at 10:55am

Yes, I agree that's harmful!

Isn't the world supposed to end in 2012? I teased my daughter not to try so hard at school...what's the point?? Live it up. She supposed to graduate in 2013 but this sure throws a wrench in THAT. I'm kidding.

BUT many Christians are environmentally active, ecumenical, and knowledgeable about taking a long term approach to public decision-making and international affairs...as stewards of the earth, compassionate people, that line of reasoning. I certainly don't think the minority of ultra conservative congressmen have the power to WIN with their short-sighted arguments, do you? Harmful in the short-run but progressives have the upper hand... I'm an optimist.

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Permalink Reply by Jacob Gladden on February 24, 2010 at 8:13pm

Tom is saying that the whole idea of being that stupid is harmful all the damn time for anyone infected by the idea and all those affected by the infected.

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Permalink Reply by Graeme on February 20, 2010 at 11:07am

Hi mojo5501, watch this talk by Sam Harris:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3YOIImOoYM

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Permalink Reply by mojo5501 on February 20, 2010 at 6:59pm

Thanks for that...I watched it and agree that there's a point where we accommodate too much and fundamentalists can find cover, as Sam Harris states, behind religious moderates. It is important to voice concerns about the intolerance of religious people when it comes to people suffering needlessly. We are supposed to be represented by a secular government in the U.S. not a theocracy.

I will have to check out Harris's book, "The End of Faith". I've been meaning to find out more about his work. I've read some of the work of Dawkins and Bennett. Isn't there a 3rd writer that's been coined part of the NEW atheist movement also? The mean ones...ha ha.

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Permalink Reply by Graeme on February 20, 2010 at 7:20pm

That would be Christopher Hitchens. I haven't read his books but I love listening to his debates. Check them out here:

http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=50

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