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Permalink Reply by Vitus on October 10, 2009 at 4:55am

Beliefs in God not so much ignorance how paranoid delusions... Madmans can be well educated, but they are madmans in any case.
Store of knowledge differ from store of heuristics...
By the way, psychology slightly less than fully is a idealistic doctrines... I'm bachelor on psychology and I know it ;)

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Permalink Reply by Tarquin St John Sh'gn'sty on October 10, 2009 at 5:38am

Possibly because;

(a) Individual core beliefs are not based on reason,they are inculcated at a very young age and maintained by adults by rationalistion..

(b) It's a fiction that religions are by their nature irrational or illogical. Most are anything but,within their own context.Religions should not be judged by their more extreme believers, who ARE often deluded.

(c) I worked closely with psychologists for over 20 years,and shared a flat with one for a while, meeting a LOT of his friends. As a group, I have never met stranger,more neurotic and downright loopy people.

A person's profession often provides expert knowledge within a narrow field. 'Psychology' is a vague term,even in the professional sense,with many different models over which there is acute disagreement amongst psychologists.

For others you see the peculiar phenomenum of people such as Richard Dawkins; an evolutionary biologist presenting himself as an atheist spokesperson and philosopher.

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Permalink Reply by Vitus on October 10, 2009 at 6:43am

As a group, I have never met stranger,more neurotic and downright loopy people.
\\\
It is true! :)

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Permalink Reply by Vitus on October 10, 2009 at 6:47am

It's a fiction that religions are by their nature irrational or illogical.
\\\
Disagree. In the basement of all religions lies logical errors.
System builded on wrong basement called as delusion, in the case of criticproofness of this system...

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Permalink Reply by Tarquin St John Sh'gn'sty on October 10, 2009 at 11:17pm

I'm presuming your position is one psychological reductionism?

Mine is anthropological. I guess we will need to agree to differ.

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Permalink Reply by Vitus on October 11, 2009 at 5:04am

Sorry, but I'm not fully get what are you mean...
All religion are either inwardly contradictorly or conflict with a logic, isn't it?
Moreover, all religion conflict with a logic but some of them may be inwardly noncontradictory, isn't it?

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Permalink Reply by Tarquin St John Sh'gn'sty on October 13, 2009 at 3:51am

"All religion are either inwardly contradictorly or conflict with a logic, isn't it? "

NO.

Most religious beliefs are reasonable and rational and possess a consistent internal logic. 'Logical' does NOT = 'true' . A position may be logically valid but untrue.


My perception is based on a few years at University studying different cultures and their belief systems,from Islam,to Hinduism,to African tribal religions to Australian Aborigines.

You mentioned your training in psychology.I used the term "psychological reductionism" deliberately.That approach is dismissed by most anthropologists as simplistic. I can't think of anyone brave enough to assert "religion/beliefs are X Y or Z" rather, it is usually claimed that " beliefs have elements of X Y and Z."

Views differ; my own lean towards structural functionalism,with elements of relativism and theoretical Marxism. There are three major schools of Anthropology,and several different views within each school.

@Steve

Sorry mate, I did not mean to imply ALL psychologists are nuts,just a lot I've met. Many were fine,and great to work with. If you want to see loopy,go to party with a large number of psych nurses.(it was at one such show I became familiar with the term 'folie a deux')

PS:One of the loopiest people I've ever met was my revered Anthropology professor and mentor, Prof Bruce Kapferer,whom I'm pretty sure was bi polar. A brilliant,fascinating,infuriating man,and the best teacher I've ever known.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Miller on October 12, 2009 at 8:48am

As a psychologist, I'm not sure I have much of a defence against the accusation that we are 'strange, neurotic and downright loopy'. I can however argue that we are not all religious!

I should point out though that being religious is not a sign of mental illness or instability; nor does it indicate a weakness of personality or a symptom of an irrational mind; nor is a a delusional process. The majority of the world's population believes in some god/s or other, and they are not all mad. Most people are religious for cultural and social reasons. This says nothing at all about their mental state.

My own view is that the (actively) religious are those who tend to require more certainty in their lives in general (this is an assumption, not data). Living with uncertainty is not easy; it is however, all we are ultimately have, if we want to lead authentic lives. It is therefore with concern I hear so many of my fellow atheists state with absolute conviction that they are right, and those those who disagree are some how lacking or unstable. Replacing religious certainty with atheist certainty is simply replacing one fundamentalism with another. Surely the point of rejecting theism and superstition is that, as a consequence we can grow, mature and reflect rather than judge and pontificate, like the worse sort of born-again zealot!

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Permalink Reply by Jo Jerome on October 12, 2009 at 12:16pm

I'd have to agree that religious belief is not in and of itself mental illness or a complete loss of rationality. Most of us here were believers at some point. Were we all mentally ill who got 'cured?' Though it kind of feels that way sometimes...

Speaking for myself, my tendency towards logic and objective, rational cognition was always there (especially as someone with Asperger's). But I was also raised in religion. At 3 years old we don't have a lot of independence to question what Mommy and Daddy are teaching us. At 9 we are trying to impress the grownups around us. By 14 we might be feeling rebellious, but we have also been well conditioned to believe/not believe certain things. We are social beings who wish to be accepted by our peers and a lot of the social structure around us revolves around religion. The questions were always there for me but I spent 25 years or so fighting them for the sake of 'fitting in.'

It's sad to see that so many people still go through that, but I can relate to the reluctance to let go of that conformity.

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