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Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on April 26, 2011 at 8:11pm

Okay ... WHERE is the arrogance is basing one's life on KNOWLEDGE rather than on unsubstantiated belief?  It strikes me as being infinitely MORE arrogant to claim that the answer is in something that cannot be demonstrated, cannot be verified, but has to be taken ON FAITH.  Even more arrogant is the idea that such faith determines one's place in a putative afterlife which is no more demonstrable than the deity one is supposed to have faith IN.

The arrogance is in the hand-waving and the excuse-making and the ultimate lack of substance behind all of that show.

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Permalink Reply by Brenda on April 26, 2011 at 8:30pm

I think theists feel that atheism is arrogant because most of the folks on earth believe in a higher power, and since atheists do not, we must think that we are smarter than everyone else.

 

I have to admit that reading some of the posts on this site, atheists do sometimes come off as either angry or arrogant, or both.

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Permalink Reply by FreeThinker on April 26, 2011 at 8:31pm

I think many theists believe that atheists are arrogant because we generally aren't very open to the supernatural.  Personally, I think we have good reason to be skeptical of it and I feel it is dangerous to accept things for which we don't have don't have sufficient justification.

 

Another reason is that the atheists who openly speak out, tend to be strong in their language and, thus, come across as arrogant.  A person might not qualify their statements when engaged in a heated conversation or debate with a theist, like they would if they were having a casual discussion.  The theist may come across many other atheists who are less upfront about their feelings and never even realize that these people are atheists.

 

Another possibility is that it is a deliberate strategy on the part of the theist to put the atheist on the defensive.  Perhaps the theist has been told in a sermon that atheists are arrogant and they simply assume it to be true because a preacher said it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by paul babcock on April 26, 2011 at 8:48pm

I think it is pretty well impossible to be arrogant while asking a question. Right off t bat you'r acknowledging you donot know something that you figure someone else might. How could that be arrogant?

It is entirely possible for atheists to be arrogent. There is some tendency for us overall to be smarter. Maybe they are jealous and resentful. Idk

It doesn't make a hell of a lot of sence that people who claim to have the ear of an omniscient omnipotent being consider people who don't arrogant.

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Permalink Reply by Jonel Burge on April 26, 2011 at 9:14pm

I've tried pointing it out before: regular christianity assumes an arrogance, that you're so important that a deity wants to listen to your prayers or inane talkings-to whenever you feel like it, and will answer them, rather than the ones of someone much more powerful and rich(those tend to be the answered prayers), or more needy than you(those tend to be the prayers people say get answered).

When instead, I am questioning and building on my own life the views that I have, and assuming that if there is a deity, he probably doesn't give a shiz about me. That's somehow arrogant.

I think it's more along the lines of, to them, I am arrogant for "rejecting his love" and "questioning his holy word."

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Permalink Reply by Syntax Error on April 27, 2011 at 10:20am

True, this is more or less what I said to them.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Black on April 26, 2011 at 10:17pm

Religion is all about telling people what they have to do and what they can not do.  Theists have a hard time understanding that they have a choice to act in any way that they see fit.  When one has accepted the authority of some senior member of their church who is presumably acting under the authority of some deity, it is very easy to think of someone as arrogant who will not accept that same authority.  What you have to remember is that these are the same people that will ignore civil law and claim that they are acting under god’s law.

 

Also remember this.  In many instances when one claims that someone else is arrogant, the claimant is usually lacking in the ability that garnered the arrogance charge.  I am sure that I have heard this somewhere, “Don’t call anyone arrogant, you just make yourself look like a dumb@$$.”  When someone uses the word “arrogant”, ask them to define it.  I’m sure that you will get some interesting responses.

 

Modesty, in the sense that most people intend, is a way of distorting realism.  This distortion is in the form of reducing contrast.  A modest person that is exceptional at something will downplay their exceptionality.  I’m afraid that atheism has more to do with realism than it does with modesty.

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Permalink Reply by Syntax Error on April 27, 2011 at 9:48am

Thank you, that was a brilliant reply. I think I agree with your view of theists accepting authority- "it is very easy to think of someone as arrogant who will not accept that same authority". It could be that theists see the world exclusively with authority over them, thus, when they imagine a world without a God they still desire a place for that authority to rest, they then assume that the atheist must think they are the authority, in other words, if you think there isn't a God then you think you are God. 

Also, on arrogance, I've always though it is a form of arrogance to accuse someone else of being arrogant, would you support that view?

Your definition of modesty is good too, I think i'm looking for a different word to describe what I mean though, in an earlier post someone used the word 'humble', perhaps a better descriptor of atheism is 'honest'. It may be impossible for ideologies to be 'modest', especially concerning such grand issues.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Black on April 27, 2011 at 7:15pm

"Also, on arrogance, I've always though it is a form of arrogance to accuse someone else of being arrogant, would you support that view?"

 

The quickest person to accuse someone of stealing is a thief.  The quickest person to accuse someone of lying is a liar.  We generally see our own faults in other people without any real evidence of them having those faults.

 

With that said, I am an Imbecile.

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Permalink Reply by Steve on April 26, 2011 at 10:35pm

Many people of faith are used to being treated with kid gloves. Their feelings are genuinely hurt by the audacious notion that atheist put forward that perhaps they are not the center of a warm fuzzy universe run by a benevolent father figure who will nurture them forever in his loving bosom. That's scary. Also you are attacking the father figure that loves them unconditionally so they must spring to his defense. You know like "How dare you say such mean things about my dad".  They feel the attachment to God in very real ways and to them it is not logic but insults to his honor they are dealing with and must defend against.  Sure it is naive but very real to them.

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Permalink Reply by paul babcock on April 26, 2011 at 11:12pm

I posted so as to add that it might be that we often do not show their faith the respect that they are used to it getting and that they think they deserve for having.

Steve basicly already said that tho, so this only counts as me seconding his idea.

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Permalink Reply by Prog Rock Girl on April 26, 2011 at 10:49pm

I suppose I can see why if someone thinks we all should be humble before a god that doubting or questioning the existence of god isn't humble. I didn't say I agree though. It should never be forbidden to entertain a thought. It goes without saying that the real arrogance is saying you don't need evidence to believe something, you know who's going to heaven or hell, etc.

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