Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Joseph P on November 10, 2010 at 5:46pm

And my biggest problem with Pascal's Wager isn't even the introduction of multiple gods to the equation. It's the basic concept of believing when you don't really believe which leaves me cold.

Believe ... when you don't believe. Ah, wait, I know that one. That's lying, one of the Ten Commandments ... lying to GOD. Yeah, he's gonna be really amused about that one.

Permalink Reply by Matthew Newman on October 29, 2010 at 4:32pm

It's merely case of semantics... just depends on what "god" as a word means to you. Of course, xtians love throwing around Einstein quotes that employ the word "god" in such a way that one with no imagination might come to believe famous atheists might actually be theists... because, of course, how could fundies be far wrong in their own minds?

Permalink Reply by Myke Sorrel on November 2, 2010 at 1:23pm

I agree with everyone here, but i guess i will looking for a different answer. For instance, if you travel back in time, and could interview the first man who started the concept of God, which religion would it be attached to? How did the Idea of a God come about, for me i think it's when people looked up in the Sky and didn't understand the things around them. God(s) have always expelled from religion correct? So if i lived in Antarctica, and never knew anything about God, but someone taught me about science and why our earth work, would it be sufficient to say i wouldn't have a religious experience? And has there been any documented time when someone did have an religious experience without knowing the concept of God? I know that's a difficult answer to say because since the dawn of time man subjected God into everything, but i think it would be interesting if someone grew up not knowing about God period, and never having experience, or better yet, having one. I guess in a sense God traveled like a verbal plague from man to man, Aztecs, Africans etc believed in other Gods until other men instilled it into them, lol my head hurts from all this thinking.

Permalink Reply by Hache Agiñaga on November 2, 2010 at 4:51pm

the first gods where wild animals, when humans were hunter-gatherers..
animals seemed magical.. whith sedentarism.. and agriculture men took those animal-gods and put them to live in the skyes.. now watching the skyes and explaining them became more important..

from there mithological religions.. henoteism .. monoteism .. philosophical religions...

and ultimately .... no religion

Permalink Reply by Joseph P on November 10, 2010 at 5:55pm

From my (admittedly less than thorough) education on the subject, I think one of the causes of the genesis of gods is psychosis. There's schizophrenia, along with a few other forms of psychosis, that can cause hallucinations, hearing voices in your head, and other experiences of 'god'. There are also psychedelic drugs, some of them found in nature, that can have the same effect. The creation of the actual deity would come from stone age and bronze age man trying to explain what he (or she) experienced.

Permalink Reply by Sigmund on November 5, 2010 at 8:06am

Hang on - I think we're missing a couple of fundamental points here.

First of all: 'God or any deity' does NOT 'come from religion'. Most theists' conditioned beliefs come from the organised religions they are born into, but that's not where the Gods come from. Organised religions are constructued out of ideas about God/s, creation, divine intervention etc. Gods have to come first.

Second: People always believe what they want to believe. At any stage in history, within a cultural group, people tend to believe similar things (derived from their psychological/'spiritual' needs and intellectual level), but individual, specific interpretations are always tailored to the precise needs of the individual. Think of the varying ideas within, for instance, Catholicism (depending on the believer), which is only one variant of Christianity.

Third: Given that this is a group interested in evolution, let's not forget that religion may participate in various evolutionary or quasi-evolutionary processes. For instance in the 'stabilisation' of society (a stable, unified society is more likely to survive) and, contingent upon that, in its 'improvement' (as usual, I'm thinking here of the dialectical view of morality and social progress). A great example, and one often used by Christians, is the 'golden rule'. Clearly this aided the development (for the 'better') of social conditions - apparently it was necessary to invent a whole bloody religion to codify and implement the idea. Taken as an instrument of potential progress, we have even more reasons to accept religion. The process of discarding an existing religion when it has outlived its usefulness can be messy, but has taken place innumerable times, after all (i.e. all religions apart from those still current, of which there are vast quantities).

Permalink Reply by dr.n.ashokkumar on November 7, 2010 at 7:12am

there is no place for god or almighty in the creation and maintenance of this universe.universe is created according to laws of physics.we cant put full stop in the name of god.

Permalink Reply by dr.n.ashokkumar on November 7, 2010 at 7:34am

no other animal except humans have so called idea of god.god idea is evolved and refined to this present state, out of human's fear and ignorance by humans.malaria was once believed to be caused by bad air, .does anyone think in that terms at presnt,.NO.because every one in this world strongly believes malaria is caused by malarial parasite.our false ideas,beliefs,myths will get definitely perished.truth and false will not sit in one chair,as truth is known ,false will go away and get perished

Permalink Reply by Joseph P on November 10, 2010 at 5:58pm

no other animal except humans have so called idea of god.

Err, how do you know that? Have you asked them? Maybe some animals have something analogous.

Permalink Reply by dr.n.ashokkumar on November 10, 2010 at 8:36pm

sir ,
i dont have any evidence about the idea of god in animals.we the hominids/hominins /modern humans have idea/necessity of god /idea of god since 25 to 30 thousand years only.god idea to this state evolved/refined over time.i will be happy to note if you have any evidence

Permalink Reply by Joseph P on November 10, 2010 at 8:44pm

Nope, no evidence of any specific animal worshiping gods. I'm just not comfortable with declaring that no animals have anything of the sort and then arguing from that presupposition. I'm in the middle, in the default position, rejecting both answers as unsupported by evidence.

There are many animals with intelligence approaching that of a human child. If some of them have something approaching abstract communication, it's possible.

Permalink Reply by Timothy Grahek on November 20, 2010 at 2:35am

I suppose if you can't accept that the universe was made by just nature then you would go and say that there must have been some higher power that started it all. The influence in usually upbringing from religion, though, despite the rejection of the religion, of course.

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