Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Prog Rock Girl on April 16, 2010 at 3:25pm

You bring up a good point about fetal homicide laws. I think causing someone to miscarry has more of a penalty, and killing a pregnant woman is an aggravating factor. In my opinion this should be punished more, because it causing a miscarriage is an added harm. The assaulter took away the woman's choice in the matter. Basically a fetus could be viewed as property of the mother and since it is in her body I say that only she can make that decision. An fetus/unborn baby can also be willed an estate.

There is also something called "criminal abortion" in which a person causes miscarriage due to reckless behavior. The example I read about was a girl who miscarried while attempting suicide.

The "rape exception" is totally illogical. First of all it would require some judge to get into a woman's business and interrogate her. Rape victims have enough problems and enough difficulty coming forward. This would also cause a lot of people to lie about being raped in order to have an abortion. I think even Jane Roe did this. One reason rape victims don't come forward is b/c they're afraid that people won't believe them, and having an atmosphere that encourages women to lie will just discourage women from coming forward. So it is impractical.

Also, why is rape/incest an exception? Because of the woman or child having trauma? It's not the only scenario in which the woman or child could have trauma from being forced to have a kid. If a person makes rape or incest an exception, they're admitting that the quality of life is also important, and not just the quantity. Mainly, I think rape is an exception for some people b/c the woman didn't have sex by choice, therefore she's not "guilty" and deserving of the "punishment" of pregnancy.

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Permalink Reply by Carrot Hare on March 1, 2010 at 8:28am

This is just like Gaza, it'll never end. Most of these people don't even know what their arguements are anymore.

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Permalink Reply by BecaT on April 9, 2010 at 7:06pm

I feel that the one thing we are missing in this whole argument is how preventable a pregnancy is these days. More emphasis should be put on make responsible health choices in the first place. Like responsible drinking, responsible driving, responsible sun protection, ie- responsible sex. Obvesously then, the cases for which abortion may be considered are perhaps more clear, when birth control fails or rape. In which case, we are also lucky to be able to determine when a woman is pregnant very early on. Why would you carry a baby for 5 or 6 months then decide to get rid of it? (unless of course for whatever reason the mother's or fetus's life is in jeapordy)Often the decision to abort a pregnancy is made (or should be made) very early on. In which case, things like late-term abortions just seem to me like a scare tactic of the christian right.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Campbell on April 10, 2010 at 6:13pm

I hate to be one of those to cause more conflict! {not really, lol}
But my 2 cents are: I strongly disagree with the general idea of abortion, there are many methods to stop it getting to that point { the pill, morning after pill, rape kits, many many forms of contraception}
But I also believe that is my choice and opinion and everyone has the right to do as they wish and it is up to them to deal with the results of those choices.
so in short, I dont agree but believe that everyone has the right to have thair own choice in the matter if they wish to do So{ as in act upon termination of said cells/being} or not.

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Permalink Reply by Johnsky on April 10, 2010 at 7:16pm

My views on Abortion do not stem from my Atheism, rather, it's simple math.

We have too many humans, not enough resources to go around.
It's the reason why I have no issue with abortion.
It's the reason I won't be having kids.

Simple.

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Permalink Reply by BecaT on April 10, 2010 at 8:30pm

Yeah...thats a good point. Many people dont like saying it bc it sounds callous, but it is true. Especially when the baby comes into a family that is lacking resources, or already has many children.

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Permalink Reply by Jezzy on April 13, 2010 at 8:25pm

But does your use of logic over emotion stem from the same mindset that led you to Atheism?

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Permalink Reply by Tarquin St John Sh'gn'sty on April 10, 2010 at 11:46pm

"Why are so many atheists pro abortion rights?"

I have no way of knowing if that statement is true. If true,it's a correlation. I'm not aware of any evidence which makes a causal connection between atheism and any moral,ethical,political , ideological or medical position.

To characterise my own position as 'pro abortion' is emotive and misleading. For me, abortion is a medical issue,between patient and doctor,period.. Opposition to the procedure is based on religious beliefs. I become infuriated at those nincompoops trying to inflict their personal superstitions on society as whole .

SO: I'm pro choice.In my opinion abortion should not even be an issue. I am also pro life. By that I mean I oppose capital punishment and war. Those things involve the talking of human life and are moral issues. Abortion does not and is not.

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Permalink Reply by Benjamin Woodson on April 15, 2010 at 2:59pm

oh thank you so much for bringing this up! as an atheist i have to say i think abortion is WRONG. taking a life is horrid no matter when, how, or what circumstances. there needs to be an honest debate as to when "life" begins, but either way i think terminating viable life simply out of preference is horrid.

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Permalink Reply by Tarquin St John Sh'gn'sty on April 15, 2010 at 10:30pm

"oh thank you so much for bringing this up! as an atheist i have to say i think abortion is WRONG. taking a life is horrid no matter when, how, or what circumstances. there needs to be an honest debate as to when "life" begins, but either way i think terminating viable life simply out of preference is horrid."

There is no such thing as 'an atheist position' on abortion or any other topic,except the non existence of god(s) You have expressed a personal opinion to which you are entitled but it has nothing to do with atheism.

That abortion is taking life is also a personal opinion I do no share. Your call for an 'honest debate' seems a little disingenuous,as such a debate has been raging for decades and in the US led to Roe vs Wade.IE the formal recognition that a foetus is not a person until it is viable ex utero.

I have no problem with your absolute personal moral value,it's your right. I have a HUGE problem with such a value being imposed on me or anyone else.

We differ at a fundamental level; I believe abortion is a purely medical issue between doctor and patient..The decision rests belong to the woman ALONE. It should not even be a legal or political issue. The opposing arguments are based on religious doctrine and personal moral views, not science.

Oh. I also reject absolute moral imperatives and all external moral authority. I recognise conscience as my only personal moral authority. I allow society and the law to dictate my behaviour for the common good.[ to a point]. I do not allow the law or others to dictate my beliefs on any matter, although I hope I remain sufficiently open minded to change my mind with evidence.

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Permalink Reply by Jezzy on April 15, 2010 at 10:39pm

What about the father?

Obviously if it was rape he has no voice, but if they're in a normal relationship how much say do you think a man has in whether the fetus his partner carries lives?

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Permalink Reply by Tarquin St John Sh'gn'sty on April 16, 2010 at 3:39am

"Obviously if it was rape he has no voice, but if they're in a normal relationship how much say do you think a man has in whether the fetus his partner carries lives? "

Are you addressing me? If so,I thought I made my position clear. viz;abortion is a medical decision between doctor and patient.

As far as I'm aware,in Australia, no third party has any legal rights in the decision to have or not have an abortion*.Recognition of any moral rights need to be agreed between the couple before the pregnancy. Tough luck if the pregnancy is unplanned.Of course the woman always has the legal right to change her mind.


*I assume common exceptions due to mental competency apply.

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