Without death penalty, prisons would be overloaded. Criminals would be released to make room for new criminals and many of these criminals who were sentenced for life for murdering or raping someone would be roaming the streets where you live. lots of tax money is wasted on these criminals, people who plan to murder would have nothing to fear since they are guaranteed they won't get any harsh punishment and that would increase the crime rate. And the planet is already over populated, so why not get rid of the rotten apples?

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Sure nuff!
Bureau of Justice Statistics
In 2008, over 7.3 million people were under some form of correctional supervision

This is why we need to Legalize Marijuana Those that are institutionalized because of non violent drug offenses do not belong in prison. These figures show the absurdity of the war on drugs, it's a bloody shame!
No doubt! And, folks who are locked up because of these laws have a hell of a time getting a job when they get out!
"Countries which focus on helping, healing, and rehabilitating their criminals have much lower crime rates than we do.. it works."
Not all crimes are reported so most statistics are lower. That and you have ask yourself if the results were gathered correctly. I'm not disputing that the USA has a higher crime rate than other developed countries, just that we have to be skeptical of the numbers that are put out.
I understand that the vast majority of incarcerated people are there for petty crimes or drug crimes.
What we need to do is ask "Of the developed countries with lower crime rates, which have justice systems similar to our own? Is the difference in the administrative portion or the corrective portion? Will a system based off that work for our country? If so how do we most efficiently adjust our system while maintaining functionality? "
I don't know the answers to these questions but just saying "Countries which focus on helping, healing, and rehabilitating their criminals have much lower crime rates than we do.. it works."
Doesn't help us draw a good comparison.
"So in promoting the ultimate violence of purposefully and clinically killing a human being, we are displaying the basest of human reactions to the fear that this person might threaten OUR lives. "
So I shouldn't fear the unrepentant killer that is currently captured and could possibly be released again?
There is nothing wrong with fear. Its just being afraid for the wrong reasons. I shouldn't fear a killer in California as I'm in Georgia. However if there is breaking news that some multiple murder in Georgia is around my area I think I have a legitimate right to fear. We have police yes, but lets be honest who really feels safer knowing they are around? I'm not going to make a point of wandering around where he/she was last sighted but that doesn't mean I wont run into said person.
As stated before after they are captured and evaluated if they have a mental disorder yeah treat them.
The courts take into account many different factors, passion and depression being high on the list. But if a person kills another for no other reason than material gain then I say we don't need that person around.
I don't care about drug use, if you want to use have fun. Just don't come steal any of my property to feed your addiction. If that means the government has to step in and regulate to make it legal fine by me. If you really need that escape from reality or mind altering experience then I don't see any reason why the government should be denying you that.
If you kill an offender, you can no longer study them to find out how to prevent crime in your civilization.

We need to get past this notion of "punishment" for crimes against society. We need to look at crimes like we look at disease. You cant just club people with cancer and expect cancer to go away. You need to study it,figure it out, and try to cure it.

Justice is not about revenge or punishment, it is about preventing crime. Its pointless to torture a person or even deprive them of anything if they are a serial killer. The only thing that makes sense is to remove them from access to weapons and people at the same time, and try to figure out what makes them tick in order to try to figure out the circumstances or physiology that causes a person to be like that, and see if we can cure it.
I find the description of Antisocial Personality Disorder amusing.
I went through the list of symptoms and jotted down those that related to me.
Superficial charm
Apparent lack of remorse or empathy; inability to care about hurting others
Impulsivity and/or recklessness
Inability to make or keep friends, or maintain relationships such as marriage
Poor behavioral controls — expressions of irritability, annoyance, impatience, threats, aggression, and verbal abuse; inadequate control of anger and temper
Recurring difficulties with the law (I like to speed)
Aggressive, often violent behavior; prone to getting involved in fights
Inability to tolerate boredom
Disregard for the safety of self or others
Persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social rules, obligations, and norms
So does this give me a diagnosis of Antisocial Personality Disorder?

This is the Diagnostic Criteria.

"The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders fourth edition, DSM IV-TR, a widely used manual for diagnosing mental disorders, defines antisocial personality disorder (in Axis II Cluster B) as:[1]
A) There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and the rights of others occurring since the age of 15, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:
failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
deceitfulness, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
impulsivity or failure to plan ahead;
irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.
B) The individual is at least 18 years of age.
C) There is evidence of Conduct disorder with onset before age 15.
D) The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or a manic episode.
Deceit and manipulation are considered essential features of the disorder. Therefore, it is essential in making the diagnosis to collect material from sources other than the individual being diagnosed.[7]
It is a requirement of DSM-IV that a diagnosis of any specific personality disorder also satisfies a set of general personality disorder criteria."
I guess not, based on this criteria. Not so big into the deceit or manipulation part.

However if you use this Criteria.

"The World Health Organization's ICD-10 defines a conceptually similar disorder to antisocial personality disorder called (F60.2) Dissocial personality disorder.[9]
It is characterized by at least 3 of the following:
Callous unconcern for the feelings of others and lack of the capacity for empathy.
Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations.
Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships.
Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence.
Incapacity to experience guilt and to profit from experience, particularly punishment.
Markedly prone to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior bringing the subject into conflict.
Persistent irritability.
The criteria specifically rule out conduct disorders.[10] Dissocial personality disorder criteria differ from those for antisocial and sociopathic personality disorders.[11]
It is a requirement of ICD-10 that a diagnosis of any specific personality disorder also satisfies a set of general personality disorder criteria."
I totally am. If that is true then I guess I should be out killing, raping and stealing.
I don't understand why I have to have empathy to be a decent person, or care about your feelings.
Do I help people when they need it, yes I do. Do I feel sorry for people that are having a tough time, no I don't. Do I care that I hurt your feelings when I told you what was on my mind, not in the slightest. Do I go out of my way to do or say hurtful things, no I don't. Am I productive member of society... no idea. So I have to conform to social norms do I? I guess we're all out on that since most of society claims there is some "higher power".


"Justice is not about revenge or punishment, it is about preventing crime. Its pointless to torture a person or even deprive them of anything if they are a serial killer. The only thing that makes sense is to remove them from access to weapons and people at the same time, and try to figure out what makes them tick in order to try to figure out the circumstances or physiology that causes a person to be like that, and see if we can cure it"
We already do this and have been for some time. Thats how they come up with things like ASPD, psychopathy, and sociopathy. They've even studied enough so that they can point out the traits of a person that could be a psychopath or sociopath. Since almost all criminals fall under ASPDs wide spread arms its easier to say that psychopaths and sociopaths are a subgroup of it. Thats my take on the definitions. Since not all offenders fit under it though we need more studying done.
The majority of people with APD originally were diagnosed (or retroactively diagnosed) with Conduct Disorder, as you cannot legally diagnose someone with APD until age 18. Of course, personality does not magically emerge at the turn of a certain age, so there are diagnoses meant to catch potential future problems. Many teens diagnosed with Conduct Disorder also had Oppositional Defiant Disorder. But not every ODD kid leads to APD and not every adult with APD had ODD.

Not everyone with APD commits crimes. And as with every mental and personality disorder, it's on a spectrum. If you were diagnosed with APD, then you would be on the lower end, as you're still capable of respecting other people. I'm quite sure you would not be, though. When they talk about disobeying the law, they're not talking about speeding or "normal" crimes, but ones that leave victims like robbery, fights, or other crimes against persons. I would love to introduce you to my uncle, though, as he is a posterchild for APD. He's well-known with the California and Mexican justice systems.

Psychopathy affects only 5% of the general population, but 50% of those in prison. There is no sole cause of why people act the way they do, but there are characteristics that make it more likely they will act a certain way. APD and psychopathy are such characteristics. Having it alone will not make you commit crimes, but with other factors, it's much more likely.

Sorry, psychology is my major of study. >.> And the criminal population is what I want to work with.
No that is fine. I can't only comment on what I have read.
"There is no sole cause of why people act the way they do, but there are characteristics that make it more likely they will act a certain way."
Thats why they call it profiling. Its also why people get mad when they are profiled or stereo typed. When it comes to humans nothing is 100%.

"The United States is THE ONLY DEVELOPED NATION THAT STILL HAS THE DEATH PENALTY."
Yeah but the general population likes it that way.
If you were a prisoner would you rather be sitting idle or working for one dollar an hour? Not only that some prisons are starting to charge you for your stay.
You're right, it could be considered profiling. However, public understanding of profiling is the negative kind - such as assuming the black guy driving a nice car must have stolen it (Sir, I will have to charge you with a DWB - Driving While Black). Courts frequently hire psychologists to do an assessment of the person on trial for the death penalty to determine several factors: Are they competent to stand trial? Are they a continuing threat to society? Are there any mitigating factors in his background that would discourage applying the death penalty? This is usually done through an interview and some testing, when done properly. Many psychologists don't do this as extensively as they should (Research Dr. James "Death" Grigson in Texas for a perfect example). They say what their client wants to hear instead, to ensure they get paid a mint for sitting in court. >.X

No, nothing is 100% and we never claimed it was. However, it is still interesting that only 5% of the population is diagnosed with psychopathic traits, yet 50% of prison populations are. Someone with psychopathy who winds up in a prison gang is very much more likely to commit a crime. I'm sure you understand that much.

We have never once found a 100% correlation rate between any trait and actions taken by a person. We would question the study if we did.

Most prisons have optional work programs. If you want to work, and you obey rules, you're allowed to. In return you get more privileges in prison. But you can't make someone work who does not want to. >.X They would instead find ways to be disruptive or even sabotage their work to be "fired."


Like I said, my view is that the death penalty should only be when there is no means to control the person with incarceration or isolation. Such an example would be Ted Bundy who was able to escape twice from captivity and kill again.
The United States is THE ONLY DEVELOPED NATION THAT STILL HAS THE DEATH PENALTY.

No study has ever shown that the death penalty is a deterrent to crime.

A large number of state prisons are now privitized and inmates used as virtual slave labor at under $1.00 per hour. Our prison system is BIG BUSINESS.

It cost millions to prosecute for the death penalty. Much more than the long term incarceration.

We could save hundreds of $Billions by legalizing drugs. We have more people in prison than any other nation in total and per capita. A majority go in non-violent drug offenders and come out hardened criminals.

Just like the torture of prisoners of war, the death penalty diminishes us by allowing it to happen. We become that which we claim to decry.
Me too ;)
I agree with Sonny Mobley that the death penalty isn't implimented widely enouph to have a great effect on the prison system, but i do believe that the death penalty should used more for there as you say "Bad Apples".

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