Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Erik Weissengruber on October 6, 2011 at 2:55am

There are other words available: "trust" and "on good authority."  Or you can use William James' economic metaphor.  We have to take a lot of things on credit.  But there comes a time when a belief will have to be cashed out.  A belief that fire is dangerous can be cashed out various way, including protecting yourself, making a weapon, etc.  The belief "our world is about 6,000 years old," "the supreme intelligence of the universe cares very much about what you do with your genitals in your spare time," or "the peak of all human wisdom is contained in my holy book" can be cashed out.  But the cash value is either minimal or is delivered in goods that I don't want (a closed world view, arbitrary sexual taboos, exclusionary focus on one text).

Permalink Reply by Carl Pastor on September 27, 2011 at 12:02am

well to me science is more then axioms we must accept. this is because it produces results like my computer, or if you are talking about evolution, medicine. i thot axioms were precepts used in math.

Permalink Reply by Tom Sarbeck on September 27, 2011 at 12:48am

In a long-ago mathematics course in differential equations, the professor one day said that even mathematics requires faith. He neither explained nor defended his statement.

I had by then quit Catholicism and in two visits to the university's atheist club found its members' certainty unsupported by evidence. I had settled on agnosticism and the professor's remark led me to conclude that I need to have faith in my mind's ability to understand mathematics.

In recent talks about faith, I've told people of my faith that the next can of food I open won't poison me. I also usually smell the can's contents, so I suppose I have some faith in my sense of smell.

I have no faith in cosmologists' claims of multiverses, eleven dimensions, or even big bangs. Such faith won't help me pay the rent or buy food, etc.

Permalink Reply by Alice on September 27, 2011 at 9:51pm

My dad told me the story from the big bang to now when I was about 5 or 6 years old... and I told everyone at the primary school and they loved it and played out the story as I told it...  a nice memory.

Permalink Reply by Zachary Moses Lashley on September 29, 2011 at 6:27pm

I was educated ABOUT evolution (in that, my teacher did explain some organism's adaptations and such) in my 9th grade year of high school, though the word "evolution" was never actually used, and we skipped the topic chapter explaining it entirely.
 I'm in my 11th grade year of high school now and am currently reading "Why Evolution Is True" by Jerry Coyne. Quite an insightful read.

Permalink Reply by Carl Pastor on September 29, 2011 at 10:06pm

much of my schooling was during ikes presidency, and i'm pretty sure that at least in california, i was taught evolution in elementary school. i never heard of creationism then

Permalink Reply by Erik Weissengruber on September 30, 2011 at 9:49am

"I don't ever remember NOT being aware of evolution."

 

The clearest picture I formed was as a child (7?8?) watching Disney's Fantasia.

 

There, in a middlebrow, mass-produced film was an unvarnished presentation of the long history of the earth and the undeniable facts of natural selection, progressive change as a result of same, and the consequences of environmental catastrophe and change on populations.

 

I cannot imagine a major entertainment producer putting out such a plain-speaking view of evolution in a children's film (never mind tacking on a short film featuring Satan!)

Permalink Reply by Leonardo Farroco on September 30, 2011 at 8:33pm

I was taught about it in the 6th grade, but I only managed to understand it years later, through reading and curiosity. I know that public schools in my country are very bad, but I also felt that evolution was not an important topic in the classroom.

Evolution needs to be taught early, indeed, but it will be useless if the students don`t manage to understand it. As denying evolution comes from ignorance, schools need to ensure that everyone knows clearly what evolution is.

Permalink Reply by Carl Pastor on September 30, 2011 at 9:41pm

hmmm, mebe thats their agenda. teach it like its unimportant.

Permalink Reply by Teagraves on September 30, 2011 at 11:03pm

...Is it bad that I don't remember studying evolution in school? I mean, we may have brushed over it, but I can't really remember having a real lesson on it.

 

I think my first exposure to it (besides pokemon lol) was in the books about dinosaurs and other ancient animals that I loved to read when I was younger (about 7 when I started reading them). They talked about how some of the animals in the book changed over time to look like the animals we see today, the dinosaurs-birds thing, and such. I didn't realize that it was evolution until much later.
(Those books were also the thing made me think that something was a bit off about the creation story)

Permalink Reply by Maruli Marulaki on October 2, 2011 at 6:20pm

I took evolution for granted, as long as I can remember.  Maybe denying prehistory is more difficulty in a country, where the remains of Neanderthals and other ancestors are abundant.    I had never even heard of creationism or intelligent design before the internet.   When I heard about it the first time, I thought that it were a joke.    It seemed just too preposterous.    
But Germany is no paradise for atheists.   Religion has a lot of power, not so much over what people think, but over every day life.   Because Sunday is a holy day to christians, there is a law, that forbids all shops including supermarkets to open on Sundays.   Because the time, when people are allegedly attending church needs to be protected.  
Yet churches are so empty, that they close them down.   Churches have been converted into apartments, shops, restaurants and even a climbing exercise wall.

Permalink Reply by Carl Pastor on October 5, 2011 at 11:28am

my theory is that the relative rationality in europe is a result of the state religions there. new wierd wacko religions cant get started if you dont have freedom of religion. they are suppressed. this leads to people becoming bored with old religion and leaving the state church, the few who want to find a new religion look around but theres none there.

recently, however we have the internet, so the wackos will find whatever the flavor of the month is whereever they are.

thats only a theory.

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