Seriously, whats with em? Does anyone else feel like what passes for masculinity now a days is perpetual boyhood? Does anyone else feel like men have been feminized? I'm not advocating a return to the patriarchy of our great grandparents, but I do think that guys need to claim their balls back.

More on this later.

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I concur *raises glass*.

(The glass is full of Crystal Light, though...)
I like Crystal Light too
I've been called a Femi-Nazi. My reply: "Damn straight and my mother wears army boots"
(she has to wear them for work)
Reading through all these posts, the conversation has changed many times. In general, the topic has been about expectations, perceptions... and balls.

While reading one of the posts about racism, I could relate to the anger of a person who was tired of hearing or reading white people this and that. As if all white people were and currently are resposible for the oppresion of African americans. I get upset when this happens to me. I often do not listen to the complints being offered, when they are offered this way.

A few posts later the topic changes to sexism. A poster is talking about how men this and men that, however, this time I noticed I wasn't offended. Now I can see why a man would be ofended, and yet not a sexist. I realise now... how often I have done the same thing, unintentionally.

Our society has changed a great deal over the years. We are doing a lot of searching and discovering of our roles in general. Part of this process will include how we relate to one another. We are creatures of habbit, and change is often difficult or resisted. We will not always agree on what role whom should play etc. Some people will be or feel oppressed... or be or feel emasculated. Obviously not all of any sexuality or race is the oppressor or the oppressed.

Our goal should be to work towards allowing people to be themselves, it is their life afterall. Yet at the same time working towards developing a mutually responsible and accepting society.
Meh. Yep. As odd as it sounds, the problem with men is the same as the problem with women--the problems that I keep noticing. People aren't being who they are in accordance with a positive coefficient of proportionality. Be yourself and unbe your unself--but people don't look to what that is--instead they just watch the Disney channel and see all "dating-related" things as awkward failures by inept boys who couldn't stand any chance at all because they come at that situation with a "comical" technique that resembles hammering a screw with the butt of a nailgun--in the case of some boys. As for the females, I neither know nor would claim to know, as my image is distorted through a number of lenses of which I am uncertain. The image as best I might reconstruct it, though, I'll tell. Maybe "it's the media". Maybe it's a culture that happens to be all over the place. Maybe it's both. Or something else. It seems that women are wimps as much as men.

In conclusion, a non-sequitur, but a true one. People in general are wimps. Since, at the latest, several thousand years ago, most people were wimps in order for society to stick together. Apparently they were just so uncharged that in order to stick together as a liquid they had to have THAT LITTLE energy. Naturally, there is a distribution--some women are true people and some men are true people and most of both are pussies. And if you want to be an ubermensch, you must HAVE THE WILL TO POWER.
quite an interesting discussion!
No, I don't feel feminized... however I'd say that the perfect balance of equal rights isn't archieved yet. On one hand even in the western world many women still earn less cash than men who do the same work and they are still very often denied the control over their body in terms of abortion and reproductive medicine by conservative, outdated laws.
On the other hand I notice quite a few tendencies here in Europe where men are put below women in front of the law. For example there are some laws that effectively prevent companies from hiring a male candidate when there is a female candidate who fits the job description as well. Also women typically don't get drafted, wtf??? Sure, men don't get pregnant so in theory they have an "advantage". But I can't remember a law that forces women to get pregnant!
All in all I think the process of equality must be completed without ANY party loosing their position.

and @thoreau: Visit one of the big metal festivals, you'll have second thoughts about the "claim your balls back" theory xD
The macho men I've met have been weak and scared little men who can only feel strong when hitting someone or making someone feel smaller than they feel.

That is very often the case, I think.

A Vietnam Veteran once told me that, in his opinion, the traditional 'weaklings' of the company (or squadron, or whatever it's called) were often the most confident soldiers, as they were often used to being picked on. He felt that this helped them better deal with being shot at, while the big, tough guys who were used to intimidating other people didn't know how to handle the pressure of war. Of course, I have no experiences to verify that, but that is what he told me. I can see how it would make sense.
I would define this form of strength as the ability to keep cool under extreme pressure, go through hell and come out the other side just fine.


... on the other side of the spectrum, you have emo.
They cry if you look at them.
it's the brains
8 years of pro-this-or-that-news network-bush era bs
has caused damage
in reference to any 'faiths' be they natural or supernatural (or with no evidence but dollars)
seems organized religion in general has 'consequences'

do you speak of the metro-sexuals out there in advil land?
every channel for some reason in the Americas; the main channels sound like this:
"blah blah geeyughk look here, remember when geeyughk yughk" - whatever news network
it's a disservice to tax-payers to not be able to fathom where the money went for x amount of years. the bush era and others did away with public schooling. suddenly it seems the convenience of tv sky-rocketed; at the bank of fox/cnn news etc.. whatever corporate/faithbased/racebased company dove head-long w/the networks.

the U.S. citizens that were supposed to be public school educated enough to read the paper and instructions at their place of work got the shaft through the funding of domestic racist companies and or greedy foreign-based companies

Jeb Bush himself said once "we'll have to use more devious methods..."
serious. defence folks, defence, rights
"Seriously, whats with em? Does anyone else feel like what passes for masculinity now a days is perpetual boyhood? Does anyone else feel like men have been feminized? I'm not advocating a return to the patriarchy of our great grandparents, but I do think that guys need to claim their balls back.'


Why does the phrase 'macho-moron' come unbidden to my mind?



Oh, for your interest: I served as a grunt in a combat unit,and hold belts in 2 martial arts. The last time I hit another person in anger was in 1964. I also have a couple of degrees.
Real masculinity is defined by an absence of anxiety over one's masculinity.
Well, which is it? Are you afraid that men have been feminized or that they live in perpetual boyhood?

Last I checked, women and boys were very different.

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