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I'm going to apologize in advance-- I'm not nearly as eloquent as many of you. I'm one of your younger, sillier Atheists. I hope though that you still give my ideas a chance. Who knows, maybe my directness will prove refreshing!

Chivalry has always baffled me. In my mind it generally equates to "Men repressing the asshole side of their personality so that you will bear their young". To others, it means, "Open the door for me, pussy." I've always felt like men sort of do that sort of thing because their parents have always told them they have to. Like church. But maybe I'm wrong?

There's this boy in my art class. He took one of my besties to prom. He happened to hear that I went to a feminist lecture and he laughed a light (but direct), condescending laugh... which I ignored because I'm so... feminine. A few days later, I walk into class, and it's the first period of the day so the chairs are all stacked on top of the desks. I go to take my chair down, and this kid immediately starts yelling and runs over, takes my chair, and sets it down. I yell at him, mostly joking, and I point to Joe, sitting across from me and ask why he had to steal my chair instead of Joe's.

Him: "Because Joe's a MAN!"
Me: "Haahh, so you stole my chair because I'm a woman?!?" <-- Thought I was joking
Him: "YES!! ...It's not a BAD thing..."
Me: *says nothing in utter shock*

I marvel at this boy's idea of the world. He's in for a good shot of disillusionment in college. I've heard men complain at how women will get mad if you open a door for them, and also get mad if you won't. I've never seen this happen, personally, I think it's mostly a paranoia.

This is a bit different. This is not anything groundbreaking or horrid, but it did make me think. It's the equivalent of stopping a girl from 20 feet back, pushing her away from the door, and then opening it for her. It doesn't make anyone's life any easier. Meanwhile, poor Joe may be carrying a stack of boxes, and no courtesy is shed upon him.

So what have I done to deserve the "respect" that is portrayed through the opening of doors, walking of home, and picking up of pencils? (Maybe I'm not accustomed. When I went to prom, and the door was opened, I would literally wait a second or two before realizing it was for me.)

It sounds nice enough on the surface, but really, I don't think my vagina qualifies me for anything special that we can't bestow upon men as well. I've never been a huge fan of the feminism where we treat women like men. Really, I think we should be treating men like women.

Tags: chair, chivalry, feminism, joe, men, stealing, women

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I don't really take offense to it, I just wish they wouldn't. It's just kind of a bubble-invasion. Someone who clearly needs the door opened (like someone with kids) is different, and it doesn't matter in that case if they are male or female.

I'm iffy on the evolutionary argument at times. I think the differences between the sexes are exaggerated and compounded by conditioning and social role-playing. Female is the default gender, I don't feel proud or ashamed of being female, I just am. I bring this up because, well, I imagine that this isn't by any means how you meant it, but part of your speech sounded like what I hear in Mormonism a lot, where a woman's place is to procreate and be a wife and mother, and that it doesn't make women "less", it's just a different role. If that's the case, and even if it's not God-given roles and instead it's evolutionary... screw that. I don't feel that way.

I don't understand the children thing or why is has to be so relevant. It shouldn't be an issue until you're ready and willing to have kids. I'm 18, I certainly hope men aren't thinking, "omg child-bearer!!" before they open the door? Don't get me wrong, from what I feel it's horrifically painful to bear children and that deserves respect. But that's childbirth-- not "being" female.

I also find it sad, the men-as-protectors side of things, because nowadays, what women could potentially need men to protect them from... is mainly other men. I don't know that I could deal with someone who had a strong protector instinct (one that made me feel weak or not respected), which is okay because I enjoy being single.

I guess I'm frustrated by that because I want an equal partner (if any). The stereotype (which the evolutionary argument sometimes backs up) is that as a woman I want another dad, or a guy who will take care of me, protect me, whatever such pith. Not really, I want a companion who doesn't treat me weird or think he has to do this or that because I'm a woman. And this change basically happened naturally as I rejected gender roles and stopped hating myself. Is it harder for men to break past that, or not possible...?
I agree with the philosophy: even the playing field and treat people well.

Although in my experience, men either make a point of opening the door... or generally rush in front of you and let it close behind them, which is something I rarely get from females. I think they teach guys to open doors on dates and shit, so I guess they associate it with courtship rituals and not to real, everyday life? I think a lot of this is just high school culture though.
Weird. I hold doors open and give up seats because it's a nice thing to do for other people.

It costs me literally nothing and it might make someone a little happier -- why not do it?
I see I have come across this discussion a tad late, but I'm quite glad I did, as your closing statement is truly special:

"I've never been a huge fan of the feminism where we treat women like men. Really, I think we should be treating men like women."

Great quote, Jezzy.
I sincerely hope that no woman ever buys me flowers.
Hey, you think I like people touching my feet?

Flowers I like though. They're sex organs *giggle*.
That's what makes the art of Georgia O'Keefe so exciting.
well, some people like myself like being nice, dependant of my mood ofcourse, so all the things i do to be nice or generally linked with chivalry are linked strongly to my mood, if i have nothing against that person i will do that person basic courtesy and open doors if they have their hands full or are in a hurry, if i am in a generous or good mood i will go out of my way to be nice, it feels good to be honest ^^

and some people really do enjoy being generally nice and treat people on an equal footing, i do not care if that person is male or female, but i cannot say myself completely without a tendency to be extra nice or extra courteous or more often nice to women, i cant help it. sue me

(also i realise im a bit late :D )
How many Feminists does it take to change a lightbulb?
Trick question! Feminists can't change anything.
I think I could change your genitals into a paperweight... >_>
Genital mutilation is feminist, too!
No it's not. Know why? Because I say it's not.


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