I'm going to apologize in advance-- I'm not nearly as eloquent as many of you. I'm one of your younger, sillier Atheists. I hope though that you still give my ideas a chance. Who knows, maybe my directness will prove refreshing!

Chivalry has always baffled me. In my mind it generally equates to "Men repressing the asshole side of their personality so that you will bear their young". To others, it means, "Open the door for me, pussy." I've always felt like men sort of do that sort of thing because their parents have always told them they have to. Like church. But maybe I'm wrong?

There's this boy in my art class. He took one of my besties to prom. He happened to hear that I went to a feminist lecture and he laughed a light (but direct), condescending laugh... which I ignored because I'm so... feminine. A few days later, I walk into class, and it's the first period of the day so the chairs are all stacked on top of the desks. I go to take my chair down, and this kid immediately starts yelling and runs over, takes my chair, and sets it down. I yell at him, mostly joking, and I point to Joe, sitting across from me and ask why he had to steal my chair instead of Joe's.

Him: "Because Joe's a MAN!"
Me: "Haahh, so you stole my chair because I'm a woman?!?" <-- Thought I was joking
Him: "YES!! ...It's not a BAD thing..."
Me: *says nothing in utter shock*

I marvel at this boy's idea of the world. He's in for a good shot of disillusionment in college. I've heard men complain at how women will get mad if you open a door for them, and also get mad if you won't. I've never seen this happen, personally, I think it's mostly a paranoia.

This is a bit different. This is not anything groundbreaking or horrid, but it did make me think. It's the equivalent of stopping a girl from 20 feet back, pushing her away from the door, and then opening it for her. It doesn't make anyone's life any easier. Meanwhile, poor Joe may be carrying a stack of boxes, and no courtesy is shed upon him.

So what have I done to deserve the "respect" that is portrayed through the opening of doors, walking of home, and picking up of pencils? (Maybe I'm not accustomed. When I went to prom, and the door was opened, I would literally wait a second or two before realizing it was for me.)

It sounds nice enough on the surface, but really, I don't think my vagina qualifies me for anything special that we can't bestow upon men as well. I've never been a huge fan of the feminism where we treat women like men. Really, I think we should be treating men like women.

Tags: chair, chivalry, feminism, joe, men, stealing, women

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lol, yeah.. opening a door for someone (man or women) isn't exactly chivalry, its common courteously. I think the term is being taken out of context in this thread. I am sure the guy that rushes over and opens the door for a female isn't thinking "Man, that women is so weak, I better run over there and open the door... maybe I will get a number." It probably stems from his parents bitching at him during his childhood for not be "respectful to women".

Just to be clear, I agree it is stupid for someone to rush over to open a door for anyone who doesn't have their hands full, or rushing to pick something up that you dropped (unless it is needed, ex. someone hands as full). But there is nothing wrong with people being simply courteous, but it shouldn't be based on sex.

If someone is behind me, or coming in as I'm going out, I hold the door for them (unless they do it for me first). If they found it offensive, then that is there own issue which they can work on.

But on the other hand, I was raised to judge my actions according to sex in some situations, which I would stand firmly behind still today. I was always taught not to hit women, and not just in the angry husband form, but in general.
Example, if I anyone comes to me aggressively, I always attempt to defuse the situation without violence, a defensive position, but if a man physically attacks me, I have no hesitation to switch to an offensive mode. But, if a women attacks me, I would remain in a defensive position, and simply try to evade the attacks and physically restraining her, while not causing any harm. The only way I would hit a female is if I felt it was my only option to evade death or serious injury.

My wife used to get yelled at when she worked as a server from her northerner boss who didn't like her "southern hospitality" (I live in Florida). So, this was proof to me that some people, men or women, do take offense to kindness... which is kinda stupid if you ask me. Either way, the corporation fired him a few weeks later because he was an ass hole.

I guess these acts being label as chivalry stems for Courtly Love, which is found in chivalry, which is typically thought of as the gentleness and graciousness to all women. But I supposed that could be interpreted in a negative fashion.

Here are the "Stages of courtly love", brought to you by Wiki.

* Attraction to the lady, usually via eyes/glance
* Worship of the lady from afar
* Declaration of passionate devotion
* Virtuous rejection by the lady
* Renewed wooing with oaths of virtue and eternal fealty
* Moans of approaching death from unsatisfied desire (and other physical manifestations of lovesickness)
* Heroic deeds of valor which win the lady's heart
* Consummation of the secret love
* Endless adventures and subterfuges avoiding detection
For me if a guy who is ahead of me opens the door I dont think anything of it because for all I know he could do it just as well to a man whose behind him. But if you see its only for women then not only do I get offended but I feel awkward. I feel its unequal to guys and I feel like I'm put on a pedestal. Its like they think I should be a china doll or something that you put in its case but never take out because its sooo fragile and delicate. I'm also more impressed with a guy who holds a door open for both men and women rather than just women. It shows that he isnt blind to seeing people as humans first and shows way more authentic courtesy that elaborate gestures of holding doors exclusively open for women. However I have nothing wrong with common human courtesy. For example if its a disabled guy or an elderly man whose on a subway shouldnt I get up and give him my seat? I have nothing wrong with not hitting women (of course). Thats a rational size difference and something that is a healthy attitude/moral compass to have. One SHOULD stand firmly behind that.

LOL, the stages of courtly love were amusing! :)
So now you say it's OK to open a door for a woman? Make up your mind.
ETres,
Wow. Eveyone got what I was saying but you. You seriously sound like some crazed baptist preacher or something that cant see reason because of the hyperbole clouding his brain.


Get this: its okay to open them if its gender neutral, ie, I open doors for him he opens doors for me and which the first person merely does the polite thing and opens them for the people, man or woman behind him. However its wrong if hes only doing it because shes a woman. Every one else got it, its time for you to actually READ my post next time instead of jumping to irrational conclusions.
I DID read your post, and you give a green light to a guy opening the door for a woman, with the caveat that he's an equal-opportunity door opener (which I am, BTW). Caveat or no, you still gave the OK for me to open the door for you if we cross paths (out of courtesy and respect, which I have described in earlier posts).

Am I more likely to open the door for a woman, stop to see if she needs help with a flat tire, take her shopping cart to the rack, or allow her on/off the elevator first? Yes - and there's not a damn thing wrong with it. That doesn't mean I haven't done those things for men, too, but yes, I'm quite guilty of being more likely to do so for a woman.

I await your standard offensive response, which will be to proclaim haughtily with bias and prejudice (because I'm a man and from Texas) that dullards like me are too stupid to realize that our real motivation is to protect weak women.
I can't stand chivalry, and it's one reason why I've had friction with Southern women. Except for blues and barbecue, I can't stand anything that comes out of the South.
Pleased to meet you, too, Mr. Dumain.
Totally agree. The south is backwards.
And that blanket statement makes you ignorant and prejudiced. Nice play.
Actually, I have no quarrel with ETres personal approach to chivalrous acts. And I am not PC. That doesn't make Texas any less of a piece of shit, though.
No BBQ for you, sir!
If you don't mind, I'll take Ralph's share of BBQ. People don't know how to do it in the north.

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