I'm going to apologize in advance-- I'm not nearly as eloquent as many of you. I'm one of your younger, sillier Atheists. I hope though that you still give my ideas a chance. Who knows, maybe my directness will prove refreshing!

Chivalry has always baffled me. In my mind it generally equates to "Men repressing the asshole side of their personality so that you will bear their young". To others, it means, "Open the door for me, pussy." I've always felt like men sort of do that sort of thing because their parents have always told them they have to. Like church. But maybe I'm wrong?

There's this boy in my art class. He took one of my besties to prom. He happened to hear that I went to a feminist lecture and he laughed a light (but direct), condescending laugh... which I ignored because I'm so... feminine. A few days later, I walk into class, and it's the first period of the day so the chairs are all stacked on top of the desks. I go to take my chair down, and this kid immediately starts yelling and runs over, takes my chair, and sets it down. I yell at him, mostly joking, and I point to Joe, sitting across from me and ask why he had to steal my chair instead of Joe's.

Him: "Because Joe's a MAN!"
Me: "Haahh, so you stole my chair because I'm a woman?!?" <-- Thought I was joking
Him: "YES!! ...It's not a BAD thing..."
Me: *says nothing in utter shock*

I marvel at this boy's idea of the world. He's in for a good shot of disillusionment in college. I've heard men complain at how women will get mad if you open a door for them, and also get mad if you won't. I've never seen this happen, personally, I think it's mostly a paranoia.

This is a bit different. This is not anything groundbreaking or horrid, but it did make me think. It's the equivalent of stopping a girl from 20 feet back, pushing her away from the door, and then opening it for her. It doesn't make anyone's life any easier. Meanwhile, poor Joe may be carrying a stack of boxes, and no courtesy is shed upon him.

So what have I done to deserve the "respect" that is portrayed through the opening of doors, walking of home, and picking up of pencils? (Maybe I'm not accustomed. When I went to prom, and the door was opened, I would literally wait a second or two before realizing it was for me.)

It sounds nice enough on the surface, but really, I don't think my vagina qualifies me for anything special that we can't bestow upon men as well. I've never been a huge fan of the feminism where we treat women like men. Really, I think we should be treating men like women.

Tags: chair, chivalry, feminism, joe, men, stealing, women

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Oh but I do think guys should pay for dinner on the first date. :)

And girls should put out.
....wow lol
I think whoever asks should pay. It's always sad when a girl asks a guy to prom and he's the one who has to pay $100 for tickets. XD
I think whoever asks should pay.

After that first date, whoever has more disposable income at hand should pay. Or, people could take turns. I think people should talk about things like this.
I think whoever asked the other out should pay. If I asked him I pay if he asked me he pays (assuming its a het relationship).
The only justification I can see for guys paying for more stuff is if they make disproportionately more money than women. There are several different claims about the "70 cents per dollar" statistic--that it's still true, that it isn't true anymore, that in cities women earn more than men, that it's true b/c men work more hours on average.
Slightly tongue-in-cheek response.


Chivalry and romanticism are cut from the same cloth,being seen to go together..

Romanticism seems to have been a invented by a Muslim court around C11th. It was carried to Europe possibly by troubadors and adopted by the nobility. Although chivalry has come to be seen as as rather romantic, originally it was purely pragmatic..Its began as rules of combat to maximise nobility's chances of surviving a fight. The ruls of chivalry id not apply to the great unwashed.


The chivalry of the antebellum Southern USA is a special case. It grew from C19 romanticism,especially as epitomised by Sir Walter Scott. It was also used to create a fantasy world to help ignore the evil of slavery.

Judging by Southerner's I've known, today chivalry is merely elegant good manner. EMILY POST summarised good manners as having consideration for the feelings of others.As a host, good manners about the comfort of one's guests.
women, being weaker, need to be assisted by big strong men. thats the idea, i think.
The big strong man who let the door slam in my face after he'd held it for the young, blonde, thin woman must not have got the memo.
lol! Yeah the guy who held the door open for me smiling while doing so making it nearly impossible to go through any other and muttered 'bitch' when I didnt thank 'his heinous' must have not got the memo either.
I LOL'd. Because I completely agree. This has always been a big thing for me.
I do like to display common courtesy, and I do appreciate it when people show the same to me.

However, I don't feel that women need to be paid any 'special' courtesy, just for being female.
And things such as door-opening and 'ladies first' really bugs me, but I suppose I've never known how to go about saying anything. I think chivalry was, maybe relevant to society centuries ago. But I don't feel as if it is today.

And I do find it highly patronising, to the point where I've fought the urge to turn around and remind some people that women are actually capable ot opening a door.

If a random person does something that appears to be, 'chivalry', it doesn't so much bother me, because:
a. It wouldn't be logical to reject help and rant at them under the pure ASSUMPTION that my gender is the reason behind the gesture.
b. Even if it is, the act is based upon their beliefs/background/culture/values
c. I'm most likely never going to see that person ever again.

But if it's a friend, or someone I know I'm going to see on a regular basis, and they do things that are obviously and blatantly based on treating women differently, be it chivalry or not, (such as my Mum's now-ex boyfriend who insisted on opening the car door for me everytime I went to step out) I will bring it up with them. Explain that it really isn't needed. But that's just a thing they have.

On a seperate note: if people, amongst themselves, mutually agree to taking on particular roles in regard to those things, then of course I don't see that as an issue whatsoever. :]
Right I dont like to be treated 'special,' like I'm disabled.

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