I'm going to apologize in advance-- I'm not nearly as eloquent as many of you. I'm one of your younger, sillier Atheists. I hope though that you still give my ideas a chance. Who knows, maybe my directness will prove refreshing!

Chivalry has always baffled me. In my mind it generally equates to "Men repressing the asshole side of their personality so that you will bear their young". To others, it means, "Open the door for me, pussy." I've always felt like men sort of do that sort of thing because their parents have always told them they have to. Like church. But maybe I'm wrong?

There's this boy in my art class. He took one of my besties to prom. He happened to hear that I went to a feminist lecture and he laughed a light (but direct), condescending laugh... which I ignored because I'm so... feminine. A few days later, I walk into class, and it's the first period of the day so the chairs are all stacked on top of the desks. I go to take my chair down, and this kid immediately starts yelling and runs over, takes my chair, and sets it down. I yell at him, mostly joking, and I point to Joe, sitting across from me and ask why he had to steal my chair instead of Joe's.

Him: "Because Joe's a MAN!"
Me: "Haahh, so you stole my chair because I'm a woman?!?" <-- Thought I was joking
Him: "YES!! ...It's not a BAD thing..."
Me: *says nothing in utter shock*

I marvel at this boy's idea of the world. He's in for a good shot of disillusionment in college. I've heard men complain at how women will get mad if you open a door for them, and also get mad if you won't. I've never seen this happen, personally, I think it's mostly a paranoia.

This is a bit different. This is not anything groundbreaking or horrid, but it did make me think. It's the equivalent of stopping a girl from 20 feet back, pushing her away from the door, and then opening it for her. It doesn't make anyone's life any easier. Meanwhile, poor Joe may be carrying a stack of boxes, and no courtesy is shed upon him.

So what have I done to deserve the "respect" that is portrayed through the opening of doors, walking of home, and picking up of pencils? (Maybe I'm not accustomed. When I went to prom, and the door was opened, I would literally wait a second or two before realizing it was for me.)

It sounds nice enough on the surface, but really, I don't think my vagina qualifies me for anything special that we can't bestow upon men as well. I've never been a huge fan of the feminism where we treat women like men. Really, I think we should be treating men like women.

Tags: chair, chivalry, feminism, joe, men, stealing, women

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The original intent of being a Gentleman, or chivalrous was meant as "how you show respect for another".

No, actually, it wasn't. I posted a video that touches on the origins of chivalry.
Thanks for correcting me.
I really don't care about the origins of chivalry. Oh, if I were to bump into that piece of trivia, I'd "record" and move on. But i wouldn't go out of my way to seek that answer? Nah.

My balance to the whole issue is that I am the person who believes in those core values, based on what I know to date. That's all that really matters, here and now.
To define 'chivalry' in general terms would be doing a great disservice.
If we are an "only" society (no god or devil that's going to "get us"), then as a cognizant people, can we not recognize the need to be a "congenial" society?
I give respect and courtesy to those that deserve it. At the same time, I also carry a 9mm with special ammo (www.hypercavbullets.com (my invention)) for those who would confuse "nice guy" with "victim".
To me, chivalry rates with honor. Something I believe in.
You're welcome.

You made a statement about the original intent of chivalry, then stated that you don't care about the origins of chivalry? Please make up your mind, kind sir. You presented yourself as knowing the origins, and then state that the origins are not important to you.

Courtesy, kindness, and general all around consideration certainly have a place in modern society. Chivalry, with its classist underpinnings and variable ideas of what is honorable, is best left on the dung heap of history.
they,
"I find a personal and ultimately high value in women"

Yeah thats what I got, especially when you described forcibly picking her body up and using her as a fire shield. Aside from how creepy that was wouldnt a man actually be a better one since hes bigger and has more muscle mass?
joel,
"Even offering seats on trains and buses(only the older women and the pregnant)."

What about the older guy or the disabled guy?
Eh, I just think it's polite to hold doors for anybody. Like Nerd, I think it's rude to let a door slam in anybody's face if they're approaching. Of course, there is that awkward zone where you have to decide if the person is close enough to the door to bother. If they're too far away, you just sort of stand there looking like a doorman, letting the heat out of the building. Or you actually make them hustle to close the distance so as not to make you feel awkward for standing there. Tricky.
If someone wants to act "chivalrous", then I don't get offended. It's hard for people to predict what is going to offend a stranger. The person usually means well and most of it is inconsequential. I don't think giving anyone special treatment (this doesn't just apply to women) really helps them, and it is kind of condescending. I don't think criticizing a woman's ideas or behavior is automatically disrespectful. What makes me sad, though, in the absence of "chivalry", is that some guys think they have a license to totally disrespect women. (Maybe they were like this even back in the chivalry days, but I wasn't alive back then.)

Here's a question: is it chivalry, the idea that men shouldn't hit women? Obviously no one should hit anyone else, but men hitting women is especially looked down on, because it's more than likely that a man can overpower a woman. I think the same is true of verbal abuse and other predatory behavior too, then (verbal abuse is not to be confused with legitimate criticism or discussion). Of course it shouldn't be done by anyone, but it is especially lame to see a man doing this to a woman.

...and equally lame for women to go wild on the verbal and physical abuse toward men, knowing that men aren't supposed to "hit back"!
prog rock girl,
"What makes me sad, though, in the absence of "chivalry", is that some guys think they have a license to totally disrespect women. (Maybe they were like this even back in the chivalry days, but I wasn't alive back then.)"

I dont think thats because a lack of chivalry but more because of misogyny. If they did chivalry before women had rights then clearly theres no connection between chivalry and respecting women. It was even seen as chivalrous once to deprive women the right to vote or else they'd lose their 'special status.' You dont have had to be alive back then to know women were treated like crap. Chivalry was more for the guy and more for his status than anything having to do with the woman. It was more like she was a prop for him to build himself up in the eyes of others than any true respect and egalitarianism torwards the woman. I say human politeness is the way to go. I mean its weird when you leave a table and the guys stand up like meerkats until you leave. I dont think guys would like that if women did that to them (I wouldnt like doing that to them). "Oh everyone stand up the little man is leaving the table." Its awkward and waaaay too public.
Like most of you, I open the door for everyone. Where I think there might be a difference is in boy-girl situations. If I'm out to dinner with a female friend, I won't pull out her chair and so on, but if it was a date, I might. Just depends.

Just today I remembered something I wrote a long time ago and put it on my twitter {in reference to a romantic relationship, not just anyone} : "A woman should be treated like a queen, but she should never act like one."
I like that :)
""A woman should be treated like a queen, but she should never act like one.""

Actually that sounds rather misogynistic.
I'm such an asshole aboot that stuff. I'll hold the door for anyone and everyone, pick something up that they've dropped and I always mail back lost wallets and stuff, but if someone doesn't do it for me I never hesitate to say something. If i need someone to hold the door and they look like they're not going to i'll shout up to them and make sure they do. I hate people who aren't aware of others around them, like someone who'll bang into you as you pass them and not say sorry always get told off cause i do it 100% of the time.
I don't think it has anything to do with chivalry, it's just being a decent person. People need to be dousche's less. I yell at my best friend all the time cause he never says thank you to the cashier at stores and food holes. He's always like "what do they care? They're not going to remember me at the end of the day". But it's not about that, it's about being a polite person in a caring society! It might not be that way in real life but i feel like just one more considerate person in this poopy-ass world makes it a better place.

Oh but I do think guys should pay for dinner on the first date. :)

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